Robot Wars Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive 9

Debuts/Final appearances/making it past a certain round for the first time
There appears to lack a guide or format to which robots are deemed notable for trivia in episode articles. I've just gone on a romp through Series 4-7 and removed chunks of information I deem unworthy of trivia status. There are three main trivia categories that we have issue with:


 * Debuts - what robots are significant enough to have their debut noted?


 * Final appearances - what robots should be noted as having their final appearances? What is a final appearance (considering Roaming Robots)


 * X made it past the Y round for the first time in Z attempts - when should this be noted, if ever?

My personal believe is that debuts should be reserved for the following:
 * Semi-Finalists of any UK Championship, if they entered more than two series in total.
 * Consistently high profile robots such as Diotoir, S.M.I.D.S.Y. or The Steel Avenger.
 * Robots that would go on to enormous success in Roaming Robots (Big Nipper, Iron Awe, Kronic the Wedgehog)
 * Not acceptable - debut of Velocirippa.

On Final appearances, I believe only the following should be noted:
 * Significant UK finalists
 * Consistently high profile robots like Diotoir, S.M.I.D.S.Y. or The Steel Avenger.
 * Not acceptable - final appearance of Team Monad and Team Death.

An on making it past the certain round, I would like to reserve that only for robots like Razer.
 * That being said, should we also have a consensus on noting when robots failed to make a certain stage for the first time? Firestorm, Chaos 2 and Hypno-Disc all have these but I think these are easier and more notable.
 * Not acceptable - Reptirron made it past the first round for the first time.

What do you all think? I'm aware that my post may contradict my actions but I'd like to set out a format for this from now, then make any corrections later.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  23:19, January 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * I understand the need to mention the "greats" and exclude the robots that were....for a lack of a better word, rubbish, but you've not really done much to cover those that fit inbetween. You removed Tiberius and Disc-O-Inferno, for example, who whilst they don't fall into the Greats don't fall into the Rubbish pile either. I don't neccessarily think the main event should be the only factor. Don't get me wrong here, this does clear up a lot of clutter, but it doesn't cover all the bases, in my opinion. CrashBash (talk) 23:38, January 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * I actually asked quite specifically not to undo anything until we had come to a consensus. Therefore I have reverted your edits. If discussion goes in a direction, we will reinsert information. But only after, not before.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  00:46, January 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * No, Toon Ganondorf. I refuse to play that game anymore. This happens every single time, and we all know how it ends. I don't want to be a part of that. I've reverted it back, and this time I must insist we keep it that way until an agreement has been come to, not the other way around. CrashBash (talk) 17:40, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

As for Tiberius and Disco, I removed Tiberius because all of its success came in Extreme 2 and Series 7, so it would be saying that this is the final appearance of a no-name robot whose significance in the UK Championship came in that final appearance. Disc-O was borderline rubbish in nearly every single UK Championship appearance, and I don't think that a single side competition should be considered to make up for that. I am in favour of a very strict approach to final appearances, robots who were high profile in every appearances. Disc-O-Inferno was far less profiled than Plunderbird, Panic Attack and Pussycat, who I believe do warrant notes.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  00:50, January 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * So, why do Iron Awe and Kronic get a mention but not Tiberius? Why do Sir Chromalot and Adam Clark's robots get a mention but not Disc-O-Inferno? You're being too inconsistent with what robots get a mention and what don't. Take Iron Awe, for example. Its battle history mirrors Tiberius exactly (second round in S4/5, first round in S6, heat final in S7) and Kronic's is exactly the same, albeit in a different order, so you have no reason for removing one but not the other, especially since Tiberius actually won a competition unlike the other two.


 * As for Disc-O-Inferno, I will agree that its main series performance was less than stellar, so why did you remove it, but leave the likes of Sir Chromalot up there? At least Disc-O-Inferno reached a heat final and won an event. Adam Clark's robots were borderline rubbish in ALL their UK championships, but you didn't do anything about that. Why?


 * If you're going to come up with some rules, fair enough, but is it too much to ask to be consistent with your own rules? Or, indeed, to ask people what they think before making such edits? I would have thought you would have learnt from the incident on the Judges page. Just saying. CrashBash (talk) 17:40, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

Just weighing in, I don't think that anything you've said is unreasonable TG. Matt Talk to me  17:49, January 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't think that Roaming Robots success makes a robot important enough for this; it's too deictic, and if we factor in outside events, it's very possible that their proper debut was outside Robot Wars; look at Dantomkia for instance whose proper "debut" was somewhere in 2000. However, I do agree that Chromalot is worthy; the biggest showmen.  Adam Clark  is notable too, for the greatest number of robots from a single team, plus he appeared in some capacity for 6 Series and one Extreme.


 * On another note I agree with Crash that you jumped the gun; in the future it would be best to leave things as they are and discuss first. HOWEVER, for the sake of peacekeeping I would like to declare a CEASEFIRE on the affected pages; that is to say, no one changes the debut notes from their current state until we resolve this issue. What state they're in now is irrelevant, the pages are not unreadable, it will not hurt anyone to keep them in libmo for a little while. R A 2 ; aka Resetti's Replicas. ( My Talk ) 18:09, January 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * Whilst I don't believe that Disc-O is notable, if the consensus goes that way I'm happy for it to go back in. What we need is a proper list of those who are noteworthy for debuts and final appearances. I might just start below.

HOWEVER, another issue arises for teams. Take Team Cold Fusion for example, do we note their debut and Pussycat's? Or do we leave the robot's success to people's own investigations/knowledge? I think that in certain circumstances, where a team has had at least one extremely different looking robot prior to the successful robot, the team and robot can be noted.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  22:27, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

Debut-worthy

 * Bodmin Community College
 * Panic Attack
 * Chaos 2
 * Razer
 * Tornado


 * Team Cold Fusion (& Pussycat)
 * Team Firestorm (& Firestorm)
 * Hypno-Disc
 * Big/Bigger Brother
 * Adams Family (& Wild Thing)
 * Dominator 2
 * Team Sting (& S3)
 * Dantomkia
 * Team Mace (& Gemini - Gemini always has a note anyway being the first clusterbot)
 * Team Scutterbots (& Spawn Again)
 * Team Big Cheese (& Wheely Big Cheese)
 * X-Terminator
 * Thermador/Thermidor 2
 * Rex Garrod

Here's where the Finalists get a bit tricky. I don't think that every single UK finalist deserves a note on their debut. Have a look at the page and you'll see some of the ones I skipped. Bulldog Breed, Atomic, Team Knightmare, Team Ivanhoe and Team 13 Black are all debuts I think could possibly make the cut, whilst St. Agro, Evil Weevil, The Grim Reaper and Gravedigger should not. Here's the remaining semi-finalists who I believe should have their debut noted.


 * Stinger - third place, high profile robot
 * Killertron - fourth place, high profile robot
 * Team Steg-A-Saw-Us - fourth place
 * Team Hurtz (& Terrorhurtz) - fourth place, high profile team
 * Team 101 - high profile team
 * King Buxton - high profile team
 * Dartford Girls Grammar - high profile team
 * Mortis - very high profile robot
 * Plunderbird - high profile robot
 * Behemoth - high profile robot.

And beyond the UK Finalists, here's a few more that I'd like to see added for high profiles.
 * Team Nemesis (& Diotoir) - do I even need to say it?
 * Sir Chromalot - high profile team
 * Ming - high profile team
 * S.M.I.D.S.Y. - high profile robot

There are a number of others I'd like to consider, but only if others agree. They include Iron Awe, Robochicken, Suicidal Tendencies, The Steel Avenger, and Crushtacean.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  22:27, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion area - please discuss here before removing or adding any
What do others think? If any of my choices are unpopular, I will strike them through if a consensus is reached against them, rather than deleting it entirely.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c) 
 * Steely and Iron Awe are two that seem important to me, otherwise I think you've hit all bases. Matt Robot Wars.jpg Talk to me  22:33, January 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but I'm still struggling to see how Iron Awe and Robochicken are any more notable than Tiberius is. Like I said before, I don't have a problem with your claims, with the exception that you are not being consistent with them. If you're going to include Iron Awe or Robochicken, then you should really include Tiberius, and if you are going to discount Tiberius, you should really discount Iron Awe or Robochicken....OK? CrashBash (talk) 23:04, January 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * That's fair, but we'll see what others think before deciding which way to go (all, or none)  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  23:06, January 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * My decisions are based on a threshold of quality (recognizability for success or stand-out team) and quantity (length of time on Robot Wars); here are the few that I'm voting "nay"
 * Killertron: One-hit-wonder.  Plus it was the very fist episode so it had to be its debut.  Bodmin Community is notable enough to get a pass though
 * Ming: Stretching it. They had only 4 appearances and never passed Round 2, they don' meet my quality or quantity threshold.
 * Gemini: Yes to Team Mace, but Gemini is only notable for being a clusterbot, it's not a notable robot on its own merit like Razer.
 * All of the "others" except Steel Avenger. We can argue till we're blue in the face about who's more notable than whom, but I don't think any of of Tiberius, Robo, and IA pass the threshold, having reached only one heat final each, and winning one-off competitions, one of which a good chunk of the TV audience never saw, the other of which was won by riding its partner's coattails.  Steely has two heat finals, and recognizable costumes.
 * Team Sting and S3: S3's time was the shortest of any Series 5 or 6 semifinalist (except Dantomkia, who's tied with it) We decided not to give Team Sting a page, ergo the are not notable enough either.

'''R A 2 ; aka Resetti's Replicas. ( My Talk )''' 00:49, January 8, 2013 (UTC)

Final appearances
These would be exactly the same robots as listed above. However, the team issue would alter the list in that notable robots who were retired whilst the team continued would be noted. For example;


 * 101's final appearance
 * Killerhurtz's final appearance
 * Wild Thing's final appearances as its wedge

Others may follow. But I believe that the robots/teams whose debut is noted should also be the ones whose retirement is noted.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  22:31, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion area - please discuss here before removing or adding any
What do others think? If any of my choices are unpopular, I will strike them through if a consensus is reached against them, rather than deleting it entirely.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c) 

I don't believe it's notable to mention Wild Thing's last apprearance as a wedge. 101 came back as Anarchy, Killerhurtz came back as Terrorhurtz. Wild Thing came back as... Wild Thing 2. If one said 'Wild Thing' it should define all Wild Things, including the Series 6 version. No need to mention its last appearance in a certain shape. Toast Ultimatum  23:03, January 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * Sounds fair actually.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  23:06, January 7, 2013 (UTC)