Robot Wars Wiki talk:Community Portal/Archive 9

Debuts/Final appearances/making it past a certain round for the first time
There appears to lack a guide or format to which robots are deemed notable for trivia in episode articles. I've just gone on a romp through Series 4-7 and removed chunks of information I deem unworthy of trivia status. There are three main trivia categories that we have issue with:


 * Debuts - what robots are significant enough to have their debut noted?


 * Final appearances - what robots should be noted as having their final appearances? What is a final appearance (considering Roaming Robots)


 * X made it past the Y round for the first time in Z attempts - when should this be noted, if ever?

My personal believe is that debuts should be reserved for the following:
 * Semi-Finalists of any UK Championship, if they entered more than two series in total.
 * Consistently high profile robots such as Diotoir, S.M.I.D.S.Y. or The Steel Avenger.
 * Robots that would go on to enormous success in Roaming Robots (Big Nipper, Iron Awe, Kronic the Wedgehog)
 * Not acceptable - debut of Velocirippa.

On Final appearances, I believe only the following should be noted:
 * Significant UK finalists
 * Consistently high profile robots like Diotoir, S.M.I.D.S.Y. or The Steel Avenger.
 * Not acceptable - final appearance of Team Monad and Team Death.

An on making it past the certain round, I would like to reserve that only for robots like Razer.
 * That being said, should we also have a consensus on noting when robots failed to make a certain stage for the first time? Firestorm, Chaos 2 and Hypno-Disc all have these but I think these are easier and more notable.
 * Not acceptable - Reptirron made it past the first round for the first time.

What do you all think? I'm aware that my post may contradict my actions but I'd like to set out a format for this from now, then make any corrections later.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  23:19, January 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * I understand the need to mention the "greats" and exclude the robots that were....for a lack of a better word, rubbish, but you've not really done much to cover those that fit inbetween. You removed Tiberius and Disc-O-Inferno, for example, who whilst they don't fall into the Greats don't fall into the Rubbish pile either. I don't neccessarily think the main event should be the only factor. Don't get me wrong here, this does clear up a lot of clutter, but it doesn't cover all the bases, in my opinion. CrashBash (talk) 23:38, January 6, 2013 (UTC)


 * I actually asked quite specifically not to undo anything until we had come to a consensus. Therefore I have reverted your edits. If discussion goes in a direction, we will reinsert information. But only after, not before.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  00:46, January 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * No, Toon Ganondorf. I refuse to play that game anymore. This happens every single time, and we all know how it ends. I don't want to be a part of that. I've reverted it back, and this time I must insist we keep it that way until an agreement has been come to, not the other way around. CrashBash (talk) 17:40, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

As for Tiberius and Disco, I removed Tiberius because all of its success came in Extreme 2 and Series 7, so it would be saying that this is the final appearance of a no-name robot whose significance in the UK Championship came in that final appearance. Disc-O was borderline rubbish in nearly every single UK Championship appearance, and I don't think that a single side competition should be considered to make up for that. I am in favour of a very strict approach to final appearances, robots who were high profile in every appearances. Disc-O-Inferno was far less profiled than Plunderbird, Panic Attack and Pussycat, who I believe do warrant notes.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  00:50, January 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * So, why do Iron Awe and Kronic get a mention but not Tiberius? Why do Sir Chromalot and Adam Clark's robots get a mention but not Disc-O-Inferno? You're being too inconsistent with what robots get a mention and what don't. Take Iron Awe, for example. Its battle history mirrors Tiberius exactly (second round in S4/5, first round in S6, heat final in S7) and Kronic's is exactly the same, albeit in a different order, so you have no reason for removing one but not the other, especially since Tiberius actually won a competition unlike the other two.


 * As for Disc-O-Inferno, I will agree that its main series performance was less than stellar, so why did you remove it, but leave the likes of Sir Chromalot up there? At least Disc-O-Inferno reached a heat final and won an event. Adam Clark's robots were borderline rubbish in ALL their UK championships, but you didn't do anything about that. Why?


 * If you're going to come up with some rules, fair enough, but is it too much to ask to be consistent with your own rules? Or, indeed, to ask people what they think before making such edits? I would have thought you would have learnt from the incident on the Judges page. Just saying. CrashBash (talk) 17:40, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

Just weighing in, I don't think that anything you've said is unreasonable TG. Matt Talk to me  17:49, January 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't think that Roaming Robots success makes a robot important enough for this; it's too deictic, and if we factor in outside events, it's very possible that their proper debut was outside Robot Wars; look at Dantomkia for instance whose proper "debut" was somewhere in 2000. However, I do agree that Chromalot is worthy; the biggest showmen.  Adam Clark  is notable too, for the greatest number of robots from a single team, plus he appeared in some capacity for 6 Series and one Extreme.


 * On another note I agree with Crash that you jumped the gun; in the future it would be best to leave things as they are and discuss first. HOWEVER, for the sake of peacekeeping I would like to declare a CEASEFIRE on the affected pages; that is to say, no one changes the debut notes from their current state until we resolve this issue. What state they're in now is irrelevant, the pages are not unreadable, it will not hurt anyone to keep them in libmo for a little while. R A 2 ; aka Resetti's Replicas. ( My Talk ) 18:09, January 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * Whilst I don't believe that Disc-O is notable, if the consensus goes that way I'm happy for it to go back in. What we need is a proper list of those who are noteworthy for debuts and final appearances. I might just start below.


 * HOWEVER, another issue arises for teams. Take Team Cold Fusion for example, do we note their debut and Pussycat's? Or do we leave the robot's success to people's own investigations/knowledge? I think that in certain circumstances, where a team has had at least one extremely different looking robot prior to the successful robot, the team and robot can be noted.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  22:27, January 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, with no other discussion forthcoming, I presume that this matter has been settled and I'll now implement the decisions we've made. Thanks everyone.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  00:11, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

Debut-worthy

 * Bodmin Community College
 * Panic Attack
 * Chaos 2
 * Razer
 * Tornado


 * Team Cold Fusion (& Pussycat)
 * Team Firestorm (& Firestorm)
 * Hypno-Disc
 * Big/Bigger Brother
 * Adams Family (& Wild Thing)
 * Dominator 2
 * Team Sting (& S3)
 * Dantomkia
 * Team Mace ( & Gemini - Gemini's debubt always has a note being the first clusterbot)
 * Team Scutterbots (& Spawn Again)
 * Team Big Cheese (& Wheely Big Cheese)
 * X-Terminator
 * Thermador/Thermidor 2
 * Rex Garrod

Here's where the Finalists get a bit tricky. I don't think that every single UK finalist deserves a note on their debut. Have a look at the page and you'll see some of the ones I skipped. Bulldog Breed, Atomic, Team Knightmare, Team Ivanhoe and Team 13 Black are all debuts I think could possibly make the cut, whilst St. Agro, Evil Weevil, The Grim Reaper and Gravedigger should not. Here's the remaining semi-finalists who I believe should have their debut noted.


 * Stinger - third place, high profile robot
 * Killertron - fourth place, high profile robot
 * Team Steg-A-Saw-Us - fourth place
 * Team Hurtz (& Terrorhurtz) - fourth place, high profile team
 * Team 101 - high profile team
 * King Buxton - high profile team
 * Dartford Girls Grammar - high profile team
 * Mortis - very high profile robot
 * Plunderbird - high profile robot
 * Behemoth - high profile robot.

And beyond the UK Finalists, here's a few more that I'd like to see added for high profiles.
 * Team Nemesis (& Diotoir) - do I even need to say it?
 * Sir Chromalot - high profile team
 * Ming - high profile team
 * S.M.I.D.S.Y. - high profile robot
 * The Steel Avenger - high profile team and robot

There are a number of others I'd like to consider, but only if others agree. They include Iron Awe, Robochicken, Suicidal Tendencies, The Steel Avenger, and Crushtacean.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  22:27, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion area - please discuss here before removing or adding any
What do others think? If any of my choices are unpopular, I will strike them through if a consensus is reached against them, rather than deleting it entirely.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c) 
 * Steely and Iron Awe are two that seem important to me, otherwise I think you've hit all bases. Matt Robot Wars.jpg Talk to me  22:33, January 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but I'm still struggling to see how Iron Awe and Robochicken are any more notable than Tiberius is. Like I said before, I don't have a problem with your claims, with the exception that you are not being consistent with them. If you're going to include Iron Awe or Robochicken, then you should really include Tiberius, and if you are going to discount Tiberius, you should really discount Iron Awe or Robochicken....OK? CrashBash (talk) 23:04, January 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * That's fair, but we'll see what others think before deciding which way to go (all, or none)  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  23:06, January 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * My decisions are based on a threshold of quality (recognizability for success or stand-out team) and quantity (length of time on Robot Wars); here are the few that I'm voting "nay"
 * Killertron: One-hit-wonder.  Plus it was the very fist episode so it had to be its debut.  Bodmin Community is notable enough to get a pass though
 * Ming: Stretching it. They had only 4 appearances and never passed Round 2, they don' meet my quality or quantity threshold.
 * Gemini: Yes to Team Mace, but Gemini is only notable for being a clusterbot, it's not a notable robot on its own merit like Razer.
 * All of the "others" except Steel Avenger. We can argue till we're blue in the face about who's more notable than whom, but I don't think any of of Tiberius, Robo, and IA pass the threshold, having reached only one heat final each, and winning one-off competitions, one of which a good chunk of the TV audience never saw, the other of which was won by riding its partner's coattails.  Steely has two heat finals, and recognizable costumes.
 * Team Sting and S3: S3's time was the shortest of any Series 5 or 6 semifinalist (except Dantomkia, who's tied with it) We decided not to give Team Sting a page, ergo the are not notable enough either.

'''R A 2 ; aka Resetti's Replicas. ( My Talk )''' 00:49, January 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree with you on all points besides Killertron. I think that one heat final to the Grand Champion, one Grand Final in its own right, a top four seed (as unimpressive as that is in reality) plus being a huge name in the first two wars should merit its retirement being mentioned at the very least.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  05:56, January 8, 2013 (UTC)

Final appearances
These would be exactly the same robots as listed above. However, the team issue would alter the list in that notable robots who were retired whilst the team continued would be noted. For example;


 * 101's final appearance
 * Killerhurtz's final appearance
 * Wild Thing's final appearances as its wedge

Others may follow. But I believe that the robots/teams whose debut is noted should also be the ones whose retirement is noted.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  22:31, January 7, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion area - please discuss here before removing or adding any
What do others think? If any of my choices are unpopular, I will strike them through if a consensus is reached against them, rather than deleting it entirely.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c) 

I don't believe it's notable to mention Wild Thing's last apprearance as a wedge. 101 came back as Anarchy, Killerhurtz came back as Terrorhurtz. Wild Thing came back as... Wild Thing 2. If one said 'Wild Thing' it should define all Wild Things, including the Series 6 version. No need to mention its last appearance in a certain shape. Toast Ultimatum  23:03, January 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * Sounds fair actually.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  23:06, January 7, 2013 (UTC)
 * Can we set the cutoff point to the heats of Series 7? Because I think don't think it's noteworthy that a robot had its last appearance only a few episodes before the show ended. R A 2 ; aka Resetti's Replicas.  ( My Talk ) 00:56, January 8, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd agree with this. It's kind of pointless to point out a machine's final appearance when it's likely to be obvious that this would be the case. It should be reserved for teams that actually retired before the end of the show.  ManU Crazy   (talk)  02:47, January 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * I also agree with this, the Series 7 All-Stars was the final appearance of so many (Firestorm, Bigger Brother, Panic Attack, Behemoth, King Buxton and Pussycat) that it would clutter the article.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  05:57, January 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * "As the penultimate Robot Wars episode broadcasted, the All-Stars was the final televised appearance of all eight competitors in Robot Wars, however, Behemoth did take part in the House Robot Rebellion, which was actually held afterwards in real-life" doesn't exactly come across as "cluttered" to me. Just saying. It'd be less "cluttered" if the bit with Behemoth was removed, I'll grant you that... CrashBash (talk) 00:14, January 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * It's clutter because it's stating the obvious. Sure mention that the Rebellion was the very last event filmed, but anyone who can't figure out the rest themselves, well, they probably can't figure out how to turn on their computer, so nothing lost.  R A 2 ; aka Resetti's Replicas.  ( My Talk ) 02:01, January 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Agreed.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  02:29, January 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Then shouldn't the reverse be true as well? CrashBash (talk) 08:32, January 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Not necessarily, it seems strange to note the debuts of robots from Heats B-F but not Heat A, that was just luck of the draw. Roadblock and Nemesis' debuts were noteworthy events because they chose to enter the show. Firestorm and Panic Attack retired because the show ended. There's a marked difference there as well.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  10:29, January 11, 2013 (UTC)

Robot Wars Club
Does anyone else here think it's worthwhile to create a page on the Robot Wars Club? There seems to be a fair bit of info on it strewn across the Wiki so maybe it would be a good idea to have it all on one place or something?  Stalwart UK  06:48, January 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * Be my guest if you want to try, I wouldn't know where to begin for that. Datovidny (talk) 07:42, January 25, 2013 (UTC)
 * If you think we have enough info, then feel free to make a start on it. Christophee (talk) 13:08, January 25, 2013 (UTC)

Extreme Destruction images
As people are getting round to creating pages for the robots from Extreme Destruction (PC/Xbox), somebody needs to upload images for them. Also, some of the current images need to be replaced with better quality versions. I'd do it myself, but I don't have the games installed. Christophee (talk) 16:40, January 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd volunteer, but I'm guessing you're referring to mine when you say some need redoing, and I can't really get much better projection. Datovidny (talk) 17:00, January 30, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yours are some of the ones I mean, but it's because of the backgrounds. I think the images of robots in the arena look better, plus it's good if they all look similar. Christophee (talk) 19:22, January 30, 2013 (UTC)

Outside Robot Wars
I'd like to reintroduce an idea I think was raised a few years ago. Many robot introductory paragraphs are stretching far too long and far off topic when we talk about Techno Games or stuff like that. The Morgue is a prime example, three whole paragraphs of stuff worth noting but utterly irrelevant to the Morgue. I propose that we move such information from the introduction into a passage at the bottom of the article (above Trivia) for information about robots like Scallywag, Snowstorm, Storm Chaser, etc. What do you think?  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  23:42, February 1, 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with this idea, and I'll be happy to help with its implementation if we decide to go ahead with it. Christophee (talk) 11:54, February 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * I support the idea too. It's getting silly how much info irrelevant to Robot Wars is cluttering the intro of so many articles.  ManU Crazy   (talk)  13:58, February 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * What do you propose as a general heading? Datovidny (talk) 16:24, February 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * How about Performances Outside of Robot Wars? Sam (BAZINGA) 21:54, February 2, 2013 (UTC)
 * Either that, Outside Robot Wars or History Outside Robot Wars.  ManU Crazy   (talk)  22:50, February 2, 2013 (UTC)


 * I like just Outside Robot Wars.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  03:19, February 3, 2013 (UTC)


 * Would this also extend to post-Robot Wars performances, or purely non-championship related material? snowdog  140  10:16, February 3, 2013 (UTC)


 * I like Outside Robot Wars. Matt Robot Wars.jpg Talk to me  10:34, February 3, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'd say all non-Robot Wars competitions, past or present, i.e, Roaming Robots, Technogames, Battlebots, Robotica, plus any information on new owners or other recent machines from members of that team.  ManU Crazy   (talk)  11:25, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

This is what I've done as a test, using Revolution as the guinea pig, is this the sort of thing you were after? Datovidny (talk) 11:38, February 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with Outside Robot Wars, or Outside of Robot Wars. As for the placement, above Trivia works for me. Toast  Ultimatum  12:36, February 3, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think if we're placing it just above 'Trivia', then maybe we should move some of the other headings to the same part of the page, such as 'Recent Televised Appearance' and 'Appearances in Merchandise'. I don't think either of those belong above the 'Robot History' section. There are others that work near the top though, such as 'Armament' and 'The Team'. I'm not sure of the best place for the 'Rivalry' section though. Christophee (talk) 15:31, February 3, 2013 (UTC)

Happy Birthday and other news
In the first place, Happy 5th Birthday Robot Wars Wiki! Ragnabot will start later on today, with the first 10 qualifiers.

In other important news, Madlooney spotted this earlier. In short Roaming Robots are merging with the old Robot Wars LLC. So where does this leave us? In my opinion, the first live event that occurs under the Robot Wars rebrand, we need to start updating the Wiki, as it is now of our concern. Opinions? Matt Talk to me  09:47, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, bumping this, as it appears it may have got lost underneath all the Ragnabot stuff. Matt Robot Wars.jpg Talk to me  12:21, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * I can't read it as I'm not on Facebook. Christophee (talk) 12:28, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Can you this? Sam (BAZINGA) 13:06, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's great. Thanks. Having read the article, I agree with Matt that the new Robot Wars should be treated as the same brand, so therefore this wiki should deal with it. Very exciting times. Christophee (talk) 13:14, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

I read it earlier today, and found it quite interesting. First of all, how do we plan to "update" the wiki for this? Secondly, with any hope, I'll try and get Peril Penguin 2 ready for an upcoming Robot Wars event, and fight representing the wiki! Datovidny (talk) 14:37, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * I think we should wait until it's all been confirmed and we have more details before we decide what changes we're going to make. We don't know what format the new competitions will take, or whether we should treat it as a direct continuation of the series, or a completely different competition under the same name. Christophee (talk) 15:04, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed with Christophee. A wiki robot would be amazing, I'd turn up in support for sure. Matt Robot Wars.jpg Talk to me  16:14, February 18, 2013 (UTC)
 * Of course, we don't have to update in accordance with this; we don't provide information on the American TV show 'Robot Wars', which uses the Robot Wars logo. Indeed, we'll wait and see what happens with Robot Wars 2013. Toast  Ultimatum  17:12, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

Today is also Robot Arena 2's 10th birthday, funny how that happens. About this new development, let's only include the televised competitions if/when they happen. '''R A 2 ; aka Resetti's Replicas. ( My Talk )''' 18:06, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry I haven't been able to contribute much. Connection problems have really been an issue lately. I assure you, I will have my special Robot Wars wikia 5th birthday list up as soon as I can. As for the news, I am cautiously interested. CrashBash (talk) 20:50, February 18, 2013 (UTC)


 * This is a very exciting development! It's fantastic to think that the Wiki will stop being a retrospective story and cater to a new audience!


 * I also agree with RA2 about what to cover. But imagine if they were making a new series - who would be seeded ooooooh.  Toon Ganondorf    (t    c)  23:51, February 18, 2013 (UTC)

Right, John Findlay has announced that the Robot Wars rebrand is effective as of the next event, so it's decision time - do we cover the live events, or shall we only cover the revived Robot Wars in the event that it is broadcast? Matt Talk to me  16:34, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm sticking to my guns, in-between series of the original RW, they had officially sponsored live events but we don't cover those. From a subjective practicality standpoint, here are the reasons I'm against it:


 * It's recent enough that spoilers will be an issue. They sell DVD's of the events, so it seems undermining, disrespectful, and cutting straight into their profit margin, to do so.
 * The format is confusing, I think it's round robin or points based, something unstructured is my point.
 * Copyrighted pictures, the owners are more likely to have an issue with us taking them because they're so recent, and it's simply impossible on a free encyclopedia to prevent every naif from uploading them.
 * If it's on TV that'll be a different issue since it's customary that people all over the internet will be discussing it the day after, but till then it's going to be a case of biting off more than we can chew. R A 2 ; aka Resetti's Replicas. ( My Talk ) 17:24, February 27, 2013 (UTC)

I'm in partial agreement with RA2, if you look at the Roaming Robots Wiki, everything is a little all-over-the-place, and having so much potentail info and so few users has made things difficult to contain. I don't think they use the point system anymore, merely one battle-heats. Mind you, with the FRA forum and Youtube links, we can always try to keep up with what's going on with Robot Wars, we have plenty of users that can keep tracking the roboteers' youtube channels for new clips, and keep checking the FRA forum for upcoming events and event results (well, I'm already doing that). So, we could do it, but we'd need more users than just me willing to help with this. Datovidny (talk) 17:45, February 27, 2013 (UTC)

MicroGravity100 is a youtube user that uploads event videos and I'm subscribed to him. I can put the videos of the new robot wars in a new playlist just for the new robot wars. Sam (BAZINGA) 18:14, February 27, 2013 (UTC)

I'm going to agree with RA2 on this. The wiki has always dealt specifically with the TV series. If we extend to the newest live events, then I think we'll also have to go back and include all other live events that have used the Robot Wars name, particularly the original US competition. Christophee (talk) 18:38, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * Of course your word is the final one, but I feel that we continue to note the robots' performances in Robot Wars events in a new section. Also, the main page is going to need slight rewording, and I feel we should note on the Robot Wars page that the brand is now still going. Datovidny (talk) 19:53, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree that this should be mentioned on the main Robot Wars page. Maybe we can have a page about the live shows, detailing how the Robot Wars brand has returned and in what capacity, and possibly a list of winners, but not in the same detail that we have for the TV series. Christophee (talk) 20:41, February 27, 2013 (UTC)

My main reason for voting 'no coverage' is that all the battles won't necessarily be uploaded by YouTube, and there's no way we can be expected to attend all the shows that don't get filmed, so there'd be lots of times where we're clueless what happened in a battle. Toast Ultimatum  20:19, February 27, 2013 (UTC)