Forum:Audited Series 6 - Discussion

This is the discussion page for Audited Series 6, the first tournament I will be hosting. To ensure that the tournament begins and ends smoothly, I have decided that there will first be some discussions relating to judges, seeds, bin candidates and special events being held during the series (including UK vs Germany). SpaceManiac888  (Talk)  18:39, December 7, 2017 (UTC)

Judges
Based on Tag Team Series 5, the judges are currently ToastUltimatum, Hogwild94 and O Raz3r O. SpaceManiac888   (Talk)  18:40, December 7, 2017 (UTC)

Returning
If you three still express interest in being a judge, please sign here. If I receive no response within two days, new judges can be nominated.


 * Yes please. If there was one tournament I'd have wanted to be a judge for, it's this one. R  a z  3   r (talk) 18:49, December 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * When did I get kicked off the judging team? I don't remember being told that. J  im laa  d4   3 (talk) 19:08, December 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * You might want to read this. SpaceManiac888   (Talk)  19:46, December 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't see there where and why I lost out. I was one of the judges in Extreme 3 and I voted in every round. Regardless, I'm putting myself forwards for this tournament. J  im laa  d4   3 (talk) 20:16, December 7, 2017 (UTC)

Naturally I've no interest in resigning. T OAS  T  22:31, December 7, 2017 (UTC)

Format
We now have a voting format to enable four-way melees to be done without causing confusion. But should it be implemented in this tournament? SpaceManiac888  (Talk)  18:39, December 7, 2017 (UTC)

Stick with four-way melees
If you want four-way melees, vote here.
 * 1) Simply to add a little variety to tournaments, although I completely understand voting for the other side. SpaceManiac888   (Talk)  18:39, December 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * 2) Ooo a new Arena tournament! I prefer melees, more fun and more mayhem! Diotoir  the  son  of  nemesis  (talk) 18:40, December 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * 3) I may have been reluctant to do Series 6, and I still technically am, but I'll still contribute to the competition all the same. That being said, I know it's not our favourite format, I would personally insist on keeping the melees, because frankly, that made Series 6 as fun as it was. CrashBash (talk) 18:45, December 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * 4) I'm fine either way, but given this hasn't been done in one of these yet AFAIAA, it'd make a nice change. Hogwild94 (talk) 18:54, December 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * 5) I loved the Series 6 melees. I'm sure we'd be able to agree with most of the decisions regarding it. R  a z  3   r (talk) 19:01, December 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * 6) We see one-on-ones anyway, so why skip them when we can have melees. J  im laa  d4   3 (talk) 19:08, December 7, 2017 (UTC)

Have one-on-one battles instead
If you want one-on-one battles, vote here.
 * 1) I think this way we get a clear decision on winners rather than dreaming up scenarios of who takes on who, but either way... Datovidny (talk) 20:31, December 7, 2017 (UTC)

New format suggestion
So if we lumped in robots from the New Blood Championship, robots which failed to qualify, and possibly even the Dutch/German series, we can actually go up to sixteen heats. I've done it before, comfortably at that. It becomes even easier if we reduce the number of competitors in each heat to 6, and then use the Series 10 format, and expanding the heats generally just adds a point to doing the audit. It's not too late to make any of this happen. I'm not sure which I'd prefer out of an extra four heats which adds 32 robots, or a 16-heat format which retains 96 robots (i.e. Series 10 format x 3.2), but let me know what you guys would be up for. T OAS  T  22:31, December 7, 2017 (UTC)

Special events
What special events should we incorporate into Audited Series 6? Personally, I think it is pretty clear that a UK vs Germany tournament is required, whilst I also believe that Sumo would be a good inclusion too. I will decide how many special events will run for this series. SpaceManiac888  (Talk)  18:39, December 7, 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm all for a UK vs Germany special, certainly. Can't really say why though just yet. CrashBash (talk) 18:50, December 7, 2017 (UTC)


 * Having one special event per heat/episode seems fine with me, I'll be happy for you to have a bit of freedom there, when I covered Audited 7 I threw in a few naff ones if you're looking for inspiration. Datovidny (talk) 20:34, December 7, 2017 (UTC)

Seeds
Seeds will be an interesting case here. I know that some believe that the twelve seeds that were used in real-life were adequate, but I just want to see whether people generally want twelve or twenty-four seeds. Henceforth, until this voting period ends in two days, please do not create a seeds list just yet. SpaceManiac888  (Talk)  18:39, December 7, 2017 (UTC)

Twelve seeds
If you want to stick with twelve seeds, please vote here.
 * 1) I'd rather keep the same twelve seeds as the actual series. When I tried to do an Audited S6 with 24 seeds, I found myself running short of robots; in the end, the last four were all non-qualifiers. Hogwild94 (talk) 18:55, December 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * 2) I agree with the above, best not to over complicate things. Diotoir  the  son  of  nemesis  (talk) 18:59, December 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * 3) I'm not too fussed either way, but 12 seeds worked very well in the real Series 6, so I don't see why it should change. R  a z  3   r (talk) 19:02, December 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * 4) I had no problems with the 12 seeds, and don't see why they need changing at all. The 12 were a good order. J  im laa  d4   3 (talk) 19:09, December 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * 5) 32 seeds was a mistake. 24 seeds was a mistake. 12 seeds is good. 16 seeds would be even better... T  OAS  T  22:31, December 7, 2017 (UTC)

Twenty-four seeds
If you want the Series 5 format, which had twenty-four seeds, please vote here.
 * 1) There were some robots that I felt suffered terribly as a result of a lack of seed positions. In particular, Bulldog Breed and Fluffy had terrible heats due to not being seeded, when both theoretically could have improved had they been given a lower seed place. Plus, I think twenty-four seeds would enable us to also take Extreme 1 results into consideration; indeed, Disc-O-Inferno, despite not qualifying for Series 5, will be seeded by me if twenty-four seeds are allocated, since it won its Annihilator. SpaceManiac888   (Talk)  18:39, December 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * 2) I could work with 24 seeds, but personally, I'd lock the twelve seeds we got as they were, because that was virtually perfect as it was. CrashBash (talk) 18:46, December 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * 3) I think we're working on the basis that the top 12 seeds are more or less fixed. Whether you think Series 6 truly needed 24 seeds or not, wouldn't it be in the spirit of these audited series anyway to bump it up to 24 to at least have a debate on the bottom 12? Could help avoid some lop-sided melees/heats as well. Datovidny (talk) 20:36, December 7, 2017 (UTC)

Should Wheely Big Cheese enter Series 6?
Normally, I would not care about which robots are binned or entered into the series, but in this case I feel a separate vote will be required. I have noticed some people would like Wheely Big Cheese to return for Series 6, even though Roger Plant did withdraw after Series 5. That said, out of fairness, as well as the potential changes to the seeds this return may cause, I have decided to give you ladies and gentlemen the decision here. Note that this has nothing to do with how competitive Wheely Big Cheese will actually be in Series 6. Rather, it is to do with whether Wheely Big Cheese would return if the situation for Roger Plant was different.

Support
If you believe Wheely Big Cheese should return, vote here.

Oppose
If you believe Wheely Big Cheese should not return, vote here.
 * 1) This is based on the fact that Roger Plant always upgraded his machines for each series. Indeed, The Mule was replaced by The Big Cheese, which was replaced itself by the Series 4 version of Wheely Big Cheese. Considering the upgrades that resulted in the Series 5 version, I believe that a Series 6 Wheely Big Cheese would be improved further. But without knowing what this Series 6 version would look like, we would have to use the Series 5 varient. And that to me is just too unrealistic for Mr. Plant. SpaceManiac888   (Talk)  18:39, December 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * 2) Once I was on the supporting side, but after TG's enquiries, I'm more in favour of this side now. R  a z  3   r (talk) 19:03, December 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * 3) I think realistically, Roger Plant had had enough by this point, and I feel it'd be realistic. It's more akin to why Pussycat didn't make Series 6 - yes, completely different and less tragic circumstances, but it's still very similar. CrashBash (talk) 19:11, December 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * 4) Wheely Big Cheese and Pussycat have always been my two favourite machines, but I think it's bending reality a little too much to try and squeeze either of them into this series. Datovidny (talk) 20:39, December 7, 2017 (UTC)
 * 5) Hardly even worth suggesting, to be frank. T  OAS  T  22:31, December 7, 2017 (UTC)

To be binned
Vote for any robots in the "Vote here" section below (creating your own page as I have) who you deem uncompetitive enough to be binned for this tournament. You can vote for any number of robots to be binned, except for the twelve seeds in Series 6. As host, I will decide how many robots will ultimately be binned. SpaceManiac888  (Talk)  18:39, December 7, 2017 (UTC)

To be added
And finally, please vote in the "Vote here" section below for robots that although failed to qualify for Series 6, might be competitive enough for a return in this Audited version. Similarly, I will decide on how many robots will be added to this tournament, deducting one place if Wheely Big Cheese is voted in. Note that Pussycat cannot be added to the replacments list, out of respect for David Gribble's family and friends. SpaceManiac888  (Talk)  18:39, December 7, 2017 (UTC)

Seeds
TBA.

To be binned

 * 4x4: I do not think 4x4 is as uncompetitive as Monad, but the fact remains that it did virtually nothing in its only fight and proved unstable too.
 * A-Kill: The only robot that progressed beyond the first round, A-Kill may have done well to avoid Terrorhurtz the longest, but it looks exceptionally flimsy and its weapons are not potent.
 * Demolition Man: I like the Series 4 version of Saw Point and find it incredibly underrated. However, Demolition Man feels to me like it was a downgrade, plus it was not the most reliable either.
 * Destructosaur: George Francis may have been wary of this machine, but personally I really do not see how it can fight effectively. Plus, its roll-over feature did not work to the standard I would have preferred it to.
 * Doctor Fist: Yeah, I think this robot needs no explanation as to why it should be binned.
 * Granny's Revenge 2: Great entertainment, but being visually entertaining is not enough to qualify for Audited Series 6.
 * Hot Pants: To be fair, Team Panda's heavyweight machines after Panda Monium were super unreliable, and I have serious concerns regarding Hot Pants on that regard.
 * Spin Doctor: This robot is simply too unreliable and is too easy to flip for it to be competitive.
 * Tridentate: Whilst I accept the idea that Tridentate should have progressed over Behemoth in Round 1, it does not make it any more competitive in my opinion.
 * W.A.S.P.: W.A.S.P. may have been bullied by Sir Killalot, but I still have to say that it seems exceptionally unreliable. Plus, its armour was damaged by Sir Killalot's lance, which is not a good sign, despite the danger the House Robot presents.

To be added

 * 8645T 2: It looks quite similar to the Series 7 version, which despite its inability to self-right, does seemingly have decent weapons. Plus, the way it failed to qualify was ridiculous in my opinion.
 * Chip: Chip is always a notable darkhorse in these fantasy tournaments. Considering its impact in its New Blood melee, I am happy to see it in Audited Series 6.
 * Gyrobot: It goes without saying that it was sad to see that Gyrobot failed to qualify for Series 6, despite doing well in its qualifier.
 * Hell's Teeth: I will give Hell's Teeth another chance, it seemed quite impressive in its qualifier and New Blood melee.
 * King B Powerworks: A massive shame to never see King B Powerworks in Series 6, as it can be relied upon to deliver good battles.
 * Lightning: Similar to its Extreme 2 version, it may cause some upsets providing it gets a decent draw.
 * Nasty Humphrey: Controversial choice here, but I find that Nasty Humphrey had terrible opponents to face in its only two battles (it faced St.Agro in the Qualifiers), despite looking quite decent.
 * Splinter: Another massive shame that Splinter failed to qualify for Series 6.
 * Terror Turtle: I will give this machine another chance to see if it can actually win a battle. Should Wheely Big Cheese not be added to this wars, another machine will be added to this list.

Seeds
TBA.

To be binned

 * Short Circuit: Well it's just not gonna do much and as much as I would desire to bin Spawn Again for being absolutely terrible
 * Armadrillo: considering we know from Series 6 and the Series 5 qualifier that it was slow and had a poor weapon.
 * Doctor Fist: Moving on...
 * Destructosaur: Is one of these weird machines that somehow got through...while Atomic F2Q!
 * Spin Doctor: Had three chances to show off what it's got...failed each time!
 * Warhog: DAMN I should have added Warhog fans to the worst fan list...maybe 6th spot, meanwhile just like Spin Doctor it had too many chances and failed too much.
 * Axe-C-Dent: It broke apart way too easily.

To be added

 * Atomic: It's Atomic, it's flipping awesome and could prove powerful!
 * Destruct-A-Bubble: Anything that can survive Dantomkia and still look amusing gets in mybooks
 * King B: Once again it'll be interesting and it is an "allstar" robot
 * Gyrobot: Well then this machine looks good and could do good...
 * Lightning: You've been Thunderstruck!!! Ok, ok Lightning is a very unique and good robot.
 * Splinter: It's an allstar (in my eyes) and could provide some interest as it could be interesting in a melee...
 * Draven: I know I shouldn't but c'mon it might be better than the Series 8/9 versions.

Seeds
TBA

To Be Binned

 * 4x4 - The robot barely even moved.
 * Armadrillo - I can't really judge it as a combat robot considering it barely made contact with anyone.
 * Doctor Fist - Does this really need justifying?
 * Granny's Revenge 2 - Purely a joke robot. It's not even a theoretically competent one like Ruf Ruf Dougal.
 * Sabretooth - I'm sorry. I know lots of people want to use it and I know we've got #PrayForGabe and #PrayForGabeToCalmDown, but the fact of the matter is, Sabretooth entered Series 6 pretty much as a cripple. Any fight it's in is pretty much a forgone conclusion. I personally would not feel comfortable using it. Things will pick up in our next Reboot-related tournament, though, I'm SURE of it.
 * Spin Doctor - More to do with the fact that it's just too unreliable to judge.
 * Tridentate - I just feel it's too small to be effective.
 * W.A.S.P. - I know most people would think to get rid of Brutus Maximus, but credit where it was due, it was quite nippy and a decent pusher. Plus, it survived against Razer for quite some time. W.A.S.P., on the other hand....

To Be Added
I wanted to have a mix, so to start with, I've narrowed it down to four veterans and four newcomers.
 * Draven - #PrayForDraven?
 * Gyrobot - A very promising and well designed newcomer.
 * Immortalis - Wait, SERIOUSLY, I hear you say? Well, come on guys, Immortalis wasn't THAT bad of a robot, and it'd be nice to give it a second chance.
 * King B Powerworks - Because why not? It's one of those robots that grows on you. And I kinda wanna see it do well-ish.
 * Lightning - Think it's a little overrated, but it fought well, so why not?
 * Mini Morg - If we're basing this on the Extreme 2 version, then why not? It has potential.
 * Splinter - No question for me, such an innovative design.
 * Typhoon 2 - I don't feel that Typhoon 2 will be at the stage where it can white-wash everyone, so I think this is fair.

I'll probably make some changes, but for now...CrashBash (talk) 19:09, December 7, 2017 (UTC)

To Be Binned

 * Doctor Fist: A given...
 * 4x4: Also a given...
 * Armadrillo: Too slow, not enough interaction with other competitors
 * Axe-C-Dent 2: Weapon came off too easily, no srimech either.
 * Demolition Man: Looks too serious to be a joke-bot, and too... rubbish to be a serious fighter
 * Destructosaur: Things have already been said about it that I agree with.
 * Mighty Mouse: Perhaps an unpopular choice, but considering all it did was run away......
 * Spin Doctor: too slow, toppled easily, too unreliable. Anything else?
 * W.A.S.P.: Woeful armour, dodgy reliability.

To Be Added

 * 8645T 2: Offers something a little different, and had some dodgy luck in the qualifiers.
 * Atomic: Assuming it's the Series 5 version, that is.
 * Gyrobot: Looked promising from the footage we saw, and it didn't change all that much for Series 7.
 * Hell's Teeth: A robot that deserves another chance.
 * King B Powerworks: Unfortunate not to even qualify considering the pedigree.
 * Lightning: Could cause a surprise or two, or could fall early. Makes things more interesting.
 * RT-81 : As if...
 * Splinter: Just should be there.
 * The Grim Reaper: Not a particularly OP Series 7 machine, reliable and solid.
 * Velocirippa: ...... I'd rather have this one in due to it actually showing aggression and good speed. After all, it did win its qualifier, so it can't break down every fight.

Seeds
TBA

Binned

 * 4x4 - Better than Monad, but not as good as Topbot, or a few non-qualifiers.
 * A-Kill - Easy fodder.
 * Brutus Maximus - Almost certainly a sacrificial first round opponent for Razer, but we don't do those. Don't we?
 * Doctor Fist - Easy fodder.
 * Granny's Revenge - Easy fodder.
 * Inshredable - Better spinners are available.
 * Mighty Mouse - Not a good fighter and very hard to analyse.
 * Riptilion - Not a good fighter, albeit better than Araknia.
 * Short Circuit - Easy fodder.
 * Spam - Novel, but not a good fighter.
 * Spin Doctor - Easy fodder.
 * Tridentate - Easy fodder.
 * UFO - Too compact to be of much use.
 * WASP - Easy fodder.

Replacements

 * Atomic - Great flipper, deserving of a placing.
 * Bash Gordon - Would be nice to see a bit more of.
 * Cerberus - We all like Cerberus don't we? Deserves a bit of luck for once.
 * Chip - Worthy of finally getting some screen time.
 * Draven - Hopefully to do a bit better than it has in the revival.
 * Haardervark - Good looking robot for which a return and some luck are long overdue.
 * King B Powerworks - We all like King B don't we? So why not?
 * Lazerus - Could do with some fresh axes maybe?
 * Mini Morg - Another seasoned entrant worthy of some more exposure.
 * Nasty Humphrey - Deserves a chance to prove itself after Tag Team and S4.
 * Reactor 3 - Spinner would be interesting to try out.
 * Splinter - Seasoned entrant worthy of another outing.
 * Typhoon 2 - More than worthy of a try.
 * Velocirippa - New model deserves another chance.

Seeds
1. Razer 2. Bigger Brother 3. Firestorm 4 4. Hypno-Disc 5. Chaos 2 6. Dominator 2

7. S3 8. Panic Attack 9. Wild Thing 10. Spawn Again 11. Stinger 12. Tornado

Bin

 * Brutus Maximus - As we're judging a tournament rather than a TV show, good for tv but useless in the arena won't work. (Ruf Ruf Dougal does not fall in this category. #PrayForRufRuf)
 * W.A.S.P. - It got broken by Killalot's claw...
 * Colossus - I keep forgetting it entered Series 6 anyway.
 * Doctor Fist - igdfbhsadihsadjf
 * Infernal Contraption - I can only try.
 * Short Circuit - It was truly outclassed unfortunately.
 * A-Kill - Again, outclassed.
 * Granny's Revenge 2 - See Brutus Maximus.
 * Spin Doctor - Falls over and doesn't spin up.
 * Riptilion - It was pretty awful.

Replacement

 * Das Gepack - Why not, we saw it in Series 6 and it was good.
 * Ansgar's Revenge - Same as above.
 * Velocirippa - Withdrew, but we can let it compete.
 * Lightning - Proved itself in Extreme
 * Pressure - Same as Lightning
 * Splinter - Previous Semi-Finalist
 * King B Powerworks - Previous Semi-Finalist and all round liked team
 * Ripper - It was awesome in Series 7.
 * Draven - Can we give it a break?
 * Atomic - Awesome, right?

I'd be cautious about using Typhoon 2. Remember that we took the Extreme 2 version to the final of Audited Extreme 2. I'm not sure how to judge a weakened version of Typhoon 2 when we don't know how much weaker it is. J im laa  d4   3 (talk) 20:29, December 7, 2017 (UTC)

Seeds
TBA

Ins

 * Diotoir - Given the main reason for dropping out was a sponsorship, I'm sure this would be a great addition.
 * King B - Probably the most obvious replacement to make.
 * Cerberus - A previous Heat Finalist and WC Quarter-Finalist, and I always liked it.
 * Velocirippa - Should've made the original cut, did we ever find out who replaced it?
 * Terminal Ferocity - A unique tracked robot from an ever persistent team, worth a shout.
 * Lightning - Very impressive in Extreme, could be a dark horse.
 * Haardervark - A previous Semi-Finalist, maybe Splinter would make more sense for this but it deserves a mention.
 * Mini Morg - The team would've livened up Series 6...that makes no difference here, but still...

Bins

 * WASP
 * Brutus Maximus
 * Spin Doctor
 * Dr Fist
 * 4x4
 * Granny's Revenge
 * Colossus
 * Tridentate

Datovidny (talk) 20:56, December 7, 2017 (UTC)

Seeds
Unchanged if we still have twelve heats. With the addition of four heats, I would seed Bulldog Breed, X-Terminator, Behemoth and S.M.I.D.S.Y. in that order. Sorry Thermidor.

Ins
''These are the ones I care the most about, in case we end up sticking with 12 heats, or using the Series 10 format across sixteen heats means we don't need to many additions. Naturally if we have 16 heats of 8, then I can add tons more.''


 * Blimmin' bloody flippin' frick-fracking Mute - Why am I the only one to make this surely obvious call? We know they tried to qualify for Series 6, we know exactly how to judge the robot, and to me, this was the primary reason for auditing Series 6 in the first place.
 * Gyrobot - One of my favourite robots, and we have direct evidence of how it would've worked in context.
 * King B Powerworks - Stay subscribed to NJGW for a wiki podcast special
 * Splinter - Fully deserving
 * Chip - Genuinely not bad.

Outs
''I'll do this later if necessary, because in my mind, we might not have to bin anybody when expanding to 16 heats. However, I would like to see Mighty Mouse replaced with Velocirippa.''

Robots I don't want to see added
Again this is presuming the failure of my format suggestion, these robots may become necessary with the largest format


 * Atomic - We don't know whether this machine was closer to its Series 5 or 7 version (how did we even learn that it failed to qualify in the first place?), and it's had more than enough success on the wiki in its time, never failing to reach the lofty ends of the tournament. It deserves a break.
 * Typhoon 2 - Judging the Extreme 2 version is a real challenge due to limited information, and as a result it would probably just win the tournament.
 * Ripper 2 - It had an electric lifter, meaning this is a completely new robot we'd be attempting to judge.