Forum:Audited Series 10 - Grand Final

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After progressing through the rumble, Rapid join the 7 heat winners in the Grand Final. We start with two 4-way melees. One robot is eliminated, two go to the redemption round, and one goes straight to the Semis. Defending champions Carbide are nowhere to be seen, and we have an even spread of seeds and non-seeds. Can Apollo reclaim their crown, or will we see a new champion? Let's see in the Grand Final!

Round 1

Please start your vote with your result in bold, as shown here: 1: First, 2: Second, 3: Third, 4: Fourth.

Aftershock (3) vs Apollo (4) vs Big Nipper vs Rapid

Aftershock	Apollo
Big Nipper	Rapid
Votes 1: Big Nipper, 2: Aftershock, 3: Apollo, 4: Rapid. Apollo and Rapid have both been taken out by powerful spinners in melees while dealing with another robot. Rapid didn't enjoy the hits from Magnetar, while Apollo will have learned from Series 9 and being taken out by Aftershock then. I can see Apollo staying away from Aftershock, leaving it to target Rapid and the polycarb sides. I don't think it'll be a Carbide-esque fog of war, but Rapid won't enjoy the hits. Once Rapid is gone, Big Nipper will be doing a good evasive job, allowing Aftershock to try and attack Apollo. A simple hit like it did before should kill Apollo though. Once it's just Aftershock vs Big Nipper, we all know that Big Nipper can win that 1v1 convincingly. Jimlaad43(talk) 10:29, April 17, 2018 (UTC) 1. Rapid, 2. Big Nipper, 3. Apollo, 4. Aftershock. Woof! What a fight! Personally, I can’t see Big Nipper having much effect on the fight. Aftershock is still a threat to it - even more so in a melee environment, and Team Titanium would be better off going with the claws anyway, because of the two big flippers. Still, it’s Big Nipper: it’ll keep going and will keep active. Aftershock will try. It’ll dish out some good hits, but I can see its weapon caving it at one point like it did in the Big Nipper fight. Either that, or it’ll get blindsided by a flipper. Rapid carried out a very-good-very-near-OotA drive on it in Series 9, so there’s a chance it could be completed this time out. Apollo will give a good account of itself - proving to be a more resolute force than it was in Series 9 when it was already ground to a pulp way before that KO blow from Aftershock. Its side flanges will be exploited by Rapid consistently though - which should take this fight via clever use of the flipper. Another Rumble winner looking for an unlikely title win? Nweston8 (talk) 10:45, April 17, 2018 (UTC) 1. Aftershock, 2. Apollo, 3. Big Nipper, 4. Rapid Neither Apollo nor Aftershock have lingering Carbide damage in this fight, which will be decisive. Sadly for Rapid, its entirely possible for the snapped cords and Apollo's flipper to end up with it face planting. I'm pretty confident Rapid is in last place. As for the other three, Apollo well and truly outlasted Big Nipper in the rumble and Big Nipper had absolutely no answer to Eruption. Big Nipper will spend the fight being tossed around by Apollo or meltdown when hit by Aftershock a la Gabriel 2 or Matilda, whilst a healthy Aftershock can do the same to Apollo. I'm confident that Aftershock can keep self-righting. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 10:47, April 17, 2018 (UTC) 1. Apollo; 2. Big Nipper; 3. Rapid; 4. Aftershock. Crike-E, I didn't expect a format like this, but it certainly poses an interesting thought process. The only problem is... I don't have a clue who to vote for at any stage! In all likelihood, I think Big Nipper will probably use the claws, as that was the choice for the 10 Robot Rumble, either out of personal preference or lasting damage to the spinner. I will presume Big Spinner, just so we're all on the same page. Aftershock has beaten Apollo and Rapid before, being relatively unthreatened by both, so it makes sense for them to try and eliminate Big Nipper, which could backfire. Aftershock only ever lost its weapon to truly exceptional robots, but one of them is attacking it in this fight, meaning that Aftershock is the only one I can try to settle upon for fourth place, even though it could still win! If this goes to the Judges then that could be enough to say a Big Nipper victory, but I definitely don't see it making an impact on Apollo or Rapid. Looking at the head-to-head between Apollo and Rapid, the time limit on the match means that Rapid can't hold back like it should in the rumble, and they'll try to get stuck in, which is just how they fell to Magnetar and Eruption. Apollo's flipper retracts quicker, it's the bulkier robot in response to being tossed, which can also self-right more easily. I see Rapid potentially falling to a snapped bungee, or we have a three-way decision. In either case, Rapid won't have done enough to earn more points than Big Nipper, but Apollo will have launched the most attacks, including a few on Big Nipper itself. Great, I just made this a four-way tie... TOAST 11:03, April 17, 2018 (UTC) I was considering doing head-to-heads, but the redemption round worked so well in the final, there was no point in not using it. 4-way melees like this were considered for the heats before we decided on 7 heats of 6. It took me ages to decide on a result though, so I feel your pain too. However, the great spread in results already shows to me that this was a good idea as it's getting everyone to think, and all are giving plausible reasons for the complete differences. To answer your question about Big Nipper - it used the claws in the rumble to preserve the battery life. Without the time limit, the batteries could have run down very quickly with the disc, but the claws allow it to last longer. Here, the 3 minute timer is still active, so the disc is wholly usable. Jimlaad43(talk) 11:35, April 17, 2018 (UTC) 1: Big Nipper, 2: Aftershock, 3:Rapid , 4: Apollo This is a tough draw. However, Rapid is going to heavily damaged and underpowered from the massive rumble meaning it's a likely victim, however, I see it surviving longer than Apollo whose just dead with this competition. Aftershock will deliver big blows, but that's where Big Nipper comes in and as we saw can deal with Aftershock's blows quite convincingly as well as defeating it!Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 12:28, April 17, 2018 (UTC) 1: Big Nipper, 2: Aftershock, 3: Apollo, 4: Rapid. Lets go through this one bot at a time, and figure out who would beat who. Aftershock has already beaten Apollo and Rapid, and has already lost to Big Nipper. Apollo I feel could beat Rapid (due to poor flipper retraction) and Big Nipper (Big Nipper's history against flippers in the modern age speaks for itself), whilst Big Nipper vs Rapid is more a case of who lands what blow first, since Rapid has shown itself to be vulnerable to spinners. So, with this in mind, I feel the logical thing for Rapid to do would be to take on Big Nipper first. However, that's just going to leave it exposed to the other two. Then I feel this'll repeat itself with Apollo, before a massive hit sends Aftershock reeling. CrashBash (talk) 12:42, April 17, 2018 (UTC) 1: Apollo, 2: Big Nipper, 3: Aftershock, 4: Rapid. Rapid is pretty much doomed against all three opponents, not only do to its issues with flipping and self-righting, but also due to generally being prone to spinners. But here is where I have to disagree with some; yes, Aftershock did knockout Apollo in Series 9, but this was done to two things. Firstly, Apollo was crippled by Carbide. Secondly, part of the arena obstructed Apollo's movement, causing it to be a sitting duck against Aftershock. Neither of these two factors will occur here, and I see Apollo getting underneath Aftershock at the front, with each flip causing Aftershock significant damage. And although Big Nipper vs Aftershock cannot really be used due to the latter being crippled by Carbide, I still think that Big Nipper will survive longer, especially when it comes to Apollo's flips. As CrashBash has noted, Big Nipper's record with flippers is not great and so should be dominated by the white flipper, losing on a judges' decision. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 15:17, April 17, 2018 (UTC) 1: Apollo, 2: Big Nipper, 3: Aftershock, 4: Rapid. Rapid’s flipper bungee was prone to breakage, and the self-righting issues it caused will prove costly once Apollo or Aftershock get a crucial flip in. I can easily see it performing somersaults as it did in its real Series 10 Group Battle, and end up landing with its flipper open. Between the other three, it’s much tougher to call. However, considering the reliability issues that Aftershock faced with its flywheel this series, I am convinced that the weapon casing will shift at some point and lead to a malfunction. Once this happens, a flip of doom is all it will take for Team Shock’s machine to fall. Depending on which weapon it uses, I can easily see Big Nipper causing tremendous damage with the disc, or getting decent lifts with the claws. It certainly proved capable of doing the latter to Apollo in the 10 Robot Rumble, but I’m not convinced about its past track record against high-pressure flippers. Given that the second-generation Apollo was generally more sturdy and reliable, it should be able to survive, exploit Big Nipper’s ground clearance numerous times and land the flips it needs to win the Judges’ decision. VulcansHowl 15:53, April 17, 2018 (UTC) 1: Apollo, 2: Big Nipper, 3: Aftershock, 4: Rapid. Rapid will likely be worn out after the melee, and thus be perceived as the easiest target, and picked off first. Aftershock then doesn't have the best record against fellow spinners, so will likely go next. Then it's just a question of whether Big Nipper can cause enough damage to pip Apollo at the post, and I'm, just, going to say no to that. Hogwild94 (talk) 17:33, April 17, 2018 (UTC) 1: Big Nipper, 2: Aftershock, 3: Apollo, 4: Rapid: I feel Rapid will break down first and then both Aftershock and BN will team up to take out Apollo. BizarroKing (talk) 21:12, April 17, 2018 (UTC) 1. Apollo, 2. Big Nipper, 3. Aftershock, 4. Rapid. Two very open melees for this grand final for sure. One thing I am confident on is Rapid struggling off the back of a Rumble and then going in with machines of this calibre. Hits from Aftershock or Big Nipper, or large flips from Apollo aren't going to do it much good, and it'll be the first to fall. Apollo took a lot of punishment in the real Rumble, and only fell st last once it ran out of gas, rather than breaking down. The side armour seemed tougher, and it was more reliable than before. Aftershock's ground clearance wasn't as good as it was in Series 9, and we saw what happened when it turned quickly. I think a Big Nipper KO on Aftershock a more likely than an Apollo flip OotA a la Eruption. Between Big Nipper and Apollo, I can't see one knocking the other out except with perhaps the pit, but neither machine has strong enough push or the right shape for me to think that'll happen. Apollo and Big Nipper to survive to a very close Judges' Decision, with Apollo scoring more points on aggression and Big Nipper scoring more on damage. I can't call it on control, so since aggression outweighs the damage, Apollo to edge it. Just. Raz3r(talk) 21:44, April 17, 2018 (UTC)
1st: Big Nipper, 2nd: Apollo, 3rd: Aftershock, 4th: Rapid

Behemoth vs Eruption (2) vs Magnetar (7) vs Tough as Nails

Behemoth	Eruption
Magnetar	Tough as Nails
Votes 1: Behemoth, 2: Eruption, 3: Magnetar, 4: Tough as Nails. In a melee like this, Tough as Nails is going to have the rear exposed to Magnetar at some point. Magnetar needs just one hit on the wheels or the ram to end TaN's chances in this melee. However, Magnetar's starring role ends there as the broken srimech will cause it issues as soon as it is against two flippers. However, both robots will take a knock before Magnetar goes over, and we saw how Eruption's flipper pretty much died in its actual melee after the hits. Behemoth shouldn't lose power like that, and can turn Eruption over to take victory. Jimlaad43(talk) 10:29, April 17, 2018 (UTC) 1: Magnetar, 2: Eruption, 3: Tough as Nails, 4. Behemoth. What's the common theme with Behemoth? It has an atrocious record in group battles. It was bullied in the Southern Annihilator, it came third against Carbide and Nuts, it was the first eliminated in the All Stars melee with Dantomkia and the Mayhem with Thermidor 2, it barely survived the first round melee in Series 6. That leaves the Series 8 melee where Carbide beat the other two first, and the Series 7 melee where it was miles ahead of the competition. History points to Behemoth bombing another ground battle with all-stars. It's also pretty decisive how easily Behemoth overturns itself. It's tremendously vulnerable against Eruption, who it can barely faze, Tough As Nails, given its predisposition to rear up and overturn itself, and Magnetar who had it beat in Series 10 and can knock it out the way Sabretooth did. I'm fully confident in Behemoth ending up OOTA or in the pit. Of the other three, its heartbreakingly true that TAN is vulnerable; it could certainly threaten Eruption but only by exposing itself to Magnetar. Between Magnetar and Eruption, I think the winner was clear sans Matilda's tusks. I chose not to predict that happening again. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 10:55, April 17, 2018 (UTC) 1. Behemoth, 2. Tough as Nails, 3. Eruption, 4. Magnetar. let’s go bold! Magnetar to fall first. It won’t go out before having a massive influence on the fight - likely rupturing Eruption’s C02 like it did in real life, but still. The potential of the srimech to fail at some point is just too high - especially against an invertible hardox machine, and two flippers. Eruption will feel the effect of the C02 next - allowing Tough as Nails to completely smother it. Behemoth will then rack up the flips on the nice, wide machine that is Tough as Nails to take a Judges’ decision. Tough as Nails could take the decision itself if it pits Eruption - but who knows how likely the Pit is to open. It could also be severely limping at this point anyway if Magnetar hits it in a bad spot. Nweston8 (talk) 10:59, April 17, 2018 (UTC) 1. Behemoth; 2. Tough as Nails; 3. Eruption; 4. Magnetar. Before I start the justification for my vote, let's just get it out of the way that with four presses of the Doom Dial between all of these robots, the pit will open for the benefit of Tough as Nails. For the sakes of its later head-to-heads, I have a request for Jimlaad - for every Tough as Nails, I'd like to see you officially randomise the outcome of the Doom Dial press for each robot in the fight. Knowing whether the pit will, or will not open, makes all the difference. My bottom two here are Magnetar and Eruption, and this is based upon their real fight in Series 10. Magnetar will likely disable Eruption's gas supply again, as it's more than welcome to attack the robot which is visibly holding back. However, the self-righting troubles will come into effect - we need only swap Matilda for Behemoth. Magnetar is gone first, and Eruption is crippled, making it easy pickings for Tough as Nails to grab its comparatively boxy chassis, and dump it in the pit. Just a slight response to Jimlaad, by the way - it's entirely possible that Magnetar could hit Tough as Nails around the back, but what would that achieve? Hitting its hydraulic ram can only leave it weaponless at best, it's the wheels or nothing, and I can't see TaN as a priority target. This fight now comes down to a head-to-head between Behemoth and Tough as Nails, but the six-wheeled pusher will blatantly overpower the Dutch machine, eventually dropping it into the pit. TOAST 11:10, April 17, 2018 (UTC) TaN won't work properly without the gripping ability. The claws flopping around don't give the robot consistency. Plus it's the axle that keeps the wheels pointing in the same direction. You just need to watch any Formula E session to see how wheels pointing in the wrong direction makes it impossible to drive. What's to say that the ram will be the only damaged thing, a hit on the back is very close to the internals, and an exploding ram will put lots of stress on the internals. Anyway, what's to stop TaN flying high and landing wheels first on the drum again? Push to Exit, Expulsion, Thor AND Rapid all flew up and landed on Magnetar again after a hit. TaN is just as vulnerable. Jimlaad43(talk) 11:30, April 17, 2018 (UTC) 1: Eruption, 2:Magnetar , 3: Tough as Nails, 4. Behemoth Ok why's everyone overrating Behemoth? As Toon said it has a bad track record for group battles, what's worse is it's against Eruption, who can flip it, Magnetar, who can damage the underbelly and TaN, who can grab it. There's literally no logical way that Behemoth can succeed. As for TaN its wheels and back end is vulnerable and will be heavily damage. Magnetar, as destructive as it is, can't self right more than once and seeing as it happened in real life...Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 12:23, April 17, 2018 (UTC) Yes, and as I said, most of those points are not really relevant. Nobody is overrating Behemoth. CrashBash (talk) 12:33, April 17, 2018 (UTC) 1st: Eruption, 2nd: Behemoth, 3rd: Magnetar, 4th: Tough As Nails. First of all, this needs to be gotten out of the way. Whilst TG does bring up some points about Behemoth bombing melees, I feel that nearly none of them are applicable here. The annihilator example was at the end of the round when Behemoth was running low on battery power, a problem it showed to be a problem during the Fourth (and indeed Third) series, but was fixed thereafter. The Nuts 2/Carbide battle was, as the article itself describes, a series of unexpected and unfortunate events, something that'd be extremely difficult to replicate (especially with no bar spinner present). The Dantomkia/Thermidor examples are a little less relevant because there are far fewer places where Behemoth can be thrown out of the arena in the first place, and lets not forget about its Series 9 melee, where it certainly did not struggle all that much. With all that, Behemoth still stands as much of a chance as anyone else, and will. The robot most in trouble is Tough As Nails. Even assuming the pit does open, it's going to find it very difficult to grab anyone except Behemoth, who can simply outpush it. I'm buying the logic that if Magnetar can get a good hit on the rear, that'll kill it, otherwise, it'll just get a taste of its own medicene. So, that leaves Eruption, Behemoth and Magnetar. What then? Well, I'd argue that Magnetar was winning its clash with Eruption before the CPZ incident, however, it's facing two flippers, not one. In a worst case scenario between the three, Eruption will end up with very little gas in its flipper, Behemoth will be left immobile on one side and Magnetar's srimech will malfunction. With two flippers, the latter of the three seems very likely, and eventually, Magnetar is going to get itself overturned. This leaves us potentially with a weakened Eruption and a crippled Behemoth, and I'm fairly sure Eruption will know how to play this battle. It could potentially get Behemoth out of the arena if all three are working properly, but that'd put it under pressure from Magnetar. It may see Magnetar as the bigger threat and go for it first - remember how it went for Aftershock before Crackers 'n' Smash? From there, the rest is simple. CrashBash (talk) 12:32, April 17, 2018 (UTC) 1: Magnetar, 2: Behemoth, 3: Tough As Nails, 4: Eruption. Now, I have to disagree with CrashBash on the idea that Tough as Nails cannot grab anyone apart from Behemoth. Because back in 2015, I attended a battle between Tough As Nails and Eruption (also featuring Tiberius 4), where whenever Eruption flipped Tough As Nails, it would allow the latter to grab hold of it by the rear (on another note, Michael Oates was angry with the result!). Now, with extra weight and larger size, I think that if the same scenario occurs here, Tough as Nails should now have total control over the flipper, unlike in Colchester. A pitting to occur. As for Magnetar and Behemoth, they will be fighting each other, whereby the same outcome of Behemoth being left crippled will happen. As a result, Magnetar and Tough as Nails will face each other, with Magnetar winning out by flipping its opponent and then taking out the rear. This will take time, however, and so the 'error that cost Magnetar the title' will not happen here, meaning that Magnetar will survive to the judges' decision, easily beating out Behemoth. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 15:17, April 17, 2018 (UTC) 1: Eruption, 2: Behemoth, 3: Magnetar, 4: Tough as Nails. Well, Tough as Nails is easy fodder for all the others, so it goes first. Then it's a question of what comes first: Magnetar getting flipped twice, or Behemoth getting OotAd by Eruption. I'd say both flippers would target the spinner and make sure the former comes first. Hogwild94 (talk) 17:35, April 17, 2018 (UTC) As I mentioned in my vote and based on the video linked above, Tough As Nails should actually defeat Eruption, so I am not sure why you consider it 'fodder' against the flipper. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 17:37, April 17, 2018 (UTC) It certainly poses an interesting theory of what to do. I have Magnetar in fourth place in my current vote, and while I think that's accurate, I think the idea of Eruption coming fourth is far more likely than Tough as Nails coming fourth, based on the assumption that TAN will defeat Eruption. Currently TAN is lined up to be eliminated at this stage, with three votes putting it in fourth, yet if Eruption gets another vote in fourth place, I could technically change my vote to ensure the survival of Tough as Nails. It's an interesting moral dilemma - do I vote with the exact outcome I predicted in the first place, or do I vote in a way which saves Tough as Nails from coming last, the more likely scenario overall... TOAST 18:58, April 17, 2018 (UTC) 1: Eruption, 2: Behemoth, 3: Magnetar, 4: Tough as Nails - Ok, starting with SM88's video- I'm not surprised Michael Oates was angry! Yes, Tough as Nails managed to grab hold of Eruption's rear twice when it got flipped over, but it did absolutely nothing with it- on one of the two occasions Eruption was still resisting. It then got lobbed around the arena repeatedly, technically pitted twice, and then Eruption got pitted by a machine that had been immobile since the very first attack. Yeah, I can see why he's annoyed. Tough as Nails doesn't really have an answer to any machine in the battle, and if it does manage to grab hold of Eruption here it leaves the door wide open for Magnetar to obliterate the rear end. And yeah, I'd agree that that'd immobilise it. I can see Eruption doing as it tried in this match IRL and leave Magnetar and Behemoth to fight, which left Behemoth a sitting duck and Magnetar with the srimech wide open. Michael Oates spots that the srimech's failed, kills off Magnetar, and then finishes off Behemoth. Combatwombat555 (talk) 20:42, April 17, 2018 (UTC) I agree that TAN wasn't really able to push Eruption around much when it had the grip, but it's worth remembering the melee environment - if TAN holds Eruption in a compromising position, Magnetar can sweep in and end it. I think the steel floor should make it easier to push Eruption too, it's generally a more slippery surface. TOAST 21:09, April 17, 2018 (UTC) 1: Behemoth, 2: Eruption, 3: Tough As Nails, 4: Magnetar: Behemoth has the experience to avoid Eruption longer while dealing with the other two, possibly even lifting Magnetar over to it's back while TAN can pit it, only to be pitted itself shortly after. BizarroKing (talk) 21:12, April 17, 2018 (UTC) 1. Magnetar, 2. Tough as Nails, 3. Eruption, 4. Behemoth. If anything, this melee is even more open than the last. Anyone COULD win this, but I simply don't think the World Championship battle between Eruption and TaN provides enough proof that TaN will snatch it. It certainly wouldn't claw its way out of this pit, and it was Tiberius 4 who actually finished off Eruption. That said, I think that both machines, in fact all four machines, will reach a Judges' Decision. Why? Well, let's take a look. Magnetar had practically beat both Eruption and Behemoth in their respective fights without knocking either out until control let it down twice. I don't think Magnetar will get the chance to launch an attack on Tough As Nails' wheels, but if it does manage to get Behemoth to stop driving on one side, and damage Eruption's flipper/gas, who is to say it then simply won't go after Tough As Nails and leave the others alone? Why risk being flipped over if you can simply go after a robot that simply can't beat you? The only way the Dutch machine has a glimmer of hope against Magnetar is if it perfectly times a charge from the side, and even then it'll struggle to keep a hold of such a short robot of Magnetar's length. Magnetar lasted a long time in the arena with two flippers, with a srimech that only worked on the first try, so why've shouldn't that happen again, alongside the presence of Tough as Nails? Behemoth to be left spinning on the spot, Eruption floundering with a severely weakened flipper, and Magnetar and Tough as Nails duking it out in a war of attrition. All four to survive, with Magnetar winning on damage and aggression, and Tough as Nails edging out Eruption on aggression and due to taking less damage. Raz3r(talk) 21:44, April 17, 2018 (UTC) Can I recommend for these melees that the decision as to who goes through is slightly altered? Everyone's votes are so different in these melees (just look at my vote and BizarroKing's above, which are in a complete reverse order, as one example) that I think we should introduce a points system to make results seem a bit fairer, whereby the robot gains one point for first place per vote, two points for second, three points for third etc. Robot with the fewest points goes through in first, and it'll also help decide the Redemption Round places. For example, in this melee so far, Eruption would have 23 points, Behemoth 24 points, Magnetar 29 points and Tough as Nails 34, so Eruption wins and Tough as Nails is last. While Behemoth has the most votes in first so far, 4 compared to Eruption and Magnetar on 3, it's also been voted last 3 times, with Eruption only voted last once and a Magnetar 3 times. Hence while Behemoth has been the most popular first choice, Eruption is actually the more consistent robot in our voting so far. Raz3r(talk) 22:16, April 17, 2018 (UTC) Makes sense to me, even if you've listed it in the wrong order - it'd be three points for getting first place, not one! Between this and my suggestion for preselecting the Doom Dial outcomes for the next TAN fight, there's room for a lot of innovation in this brilliant Grand Final! TOAST 13:57, April 18, 2018 (UTC) 1: Tough as Nails 2: Behemoth 3: Magnetar 4: Eruption. This is really too close to call - honestly, I have no idea on how this melee is going to turn out. But, I suppose I have to give my predictions – and I predict that we are going to be in for a lot of surprises. Considering the video which SpaceManiac mentioned, I should think that Michael Oates will learn from experience by avoiding Tough as Nails altogether and hanging Eruption back in the early stages. However, what are the chances of it being ganged up on by the others as what happened in real life? Magnetar certainly proved capable of pushing Eruption around and damaging its CO2 system, and Behemoth is more than capable of landing a swift flip of death if Eruption loses much of its gas supply early on. Behemoth and Magnetar proved to be evenly matched in their Redemption Round, and there is always the prospect of the latter damaging Behemoth’s drive after a couple of blows, leaving Behemoth spinning in circles for the remainder of the battle. But what about Tough as Nails? Its wheels and pneumatic ram are exposed, offering prime targets for Magnetar’s drum to damage or incapacitate. It also proved suspect against opponents with more powerful drive systems - even if the drum and srimech malfunction, I can picture Magnetar outpushing Tough as Nails for the most part, considering how easily it pushed Eruption around in real life. What if, however, it encounters Behemoth, and the latter suddenly throws it over? Without a working srimech, Magnetar is finished! And considering that Tough as Nails’ claws have already proved capable of clamping Behemoth with ease, I can easily see it taking advantage of its surviving opponent’s drive issues and pushing it to the hazards – possibly down the pit. Considering all the variables at play, a shock victory for Tough as Nails might be possible providing that the Dutch machine can tank Magnetar’s initial blows and stay out of trouble. VulcansHowl 13:47, April 18, 2018 (UTC)
1st: Behemoth, 2nd: Eruption, 3rd Magnetar, 4th: Tough as Nails

Redemption Round

Apollo (4) vs Magnetar (7)

Apollo	Magnetar
Votes for Apollo I'm sorry but If (I should rephrase WHEN) Apollo gets a flip, it WILL hinder Magnetar especially considering how awful it's selfrighter was. Magnetar does have a strong chance BUT only if it'll get behind which I don't see Apollo allowing.Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 16:09, April 19, 2018 (UTC) Could you clarify the method used to award the win to Big Nipper in the first melee? Maybe I've just ruined my vision after lying in the sunlight today but I seem to think there were five votes for Apollo to win, and four for Big Nipper. Gutted for Tough as Nails, but here we have pretty much a very close match. Ultimately I don't think Magnetar can finish Apollo off before difficulties with the srimech come into play. TOAST 17:13, April 19, 2018 (UTC) From what I can gather, it was a point system, based on where each robot finished in each person's vote. CrashBash (talk) 17:15, April 19, 2018 (UTC) Points, because that was what was asked for. Jimlaad43(talk) 18:14, April 19, 2018 (UTC) Yeah you're right, and that was probably still the best decision - I just didn't really look at that decision from the winner's perspective, and more from who was going to go out. TOAST 18:35, April 19, 2018 (UTC) While I'm at it - the Doom Dial pre-selection ultimately went unused for Tough as Nails, bless his soul, but if Apollo goes through here, I think there's an important match which may need to borrow the same strategy... TOAST 18:41, April 19, 2018 (UTC) Apollo is an awkward shape for Magnetar to dominate. Magnetar managed good attacks and pushes on Eruption, but Michael Oates' machine is compact and narrow - making it easier to attack all over. Apollo isn't that shape. When Magnetar attacked Eruption, one little clip of the drum could flick Eruption's front into the air, allowing Magnetar to slide in and attack the underside of the machine. Magnetar will knock the side flange that it attacks of Apollo slightly into the air, but that's about it. With how wide Apollo's front flanges are, Dave Young's flipper robot will be back onto the arena floor quickly - not allowing Magnetar clean chances to attack the underside that well. Apollo can weather some early knocks and come out on top. Nweston8 (talk) 17:18, April 19, 2018 (UTC) Despite Apollo's vulnerability against spinners, I fear Magnetar's self-righter issues are more serious, and more likely to do it in. Great point by Jimlaad though. Hogwild94 (talk) 17:41, April 19, 2018 (UTC) I had to think about this one. I really want to vote for Magnetar because I feel it could cause some serious damage to Apollo if it really wanted, especially since we know Apollo doesn't have the best history with reliability against spinners. But I just don't trust that srimech. If it were Eruption, maybe, but Apollo is a much larger machine....CrashBash (talk) 19:42, April 20, 2018 (UTC) Given that this version of Apollo tanked numerous hits from Sabretooth's drum in the 10 Robot Rumble - including one to its rear - it's fair to say that it won't die immediately after Magnetar's initial onslaught. As in real-life, I can expect Magnetar's radio issues to come into play and cripple both its drum and srimech after it deals considerable damage to the Series 8 champion. From that point onwards, it's only a matter of time before Apollo delivers that flip of doom. VulcansHowl 20:54, April 20, 2018 (UTC) I trust Apollo's taper would get under Magnetar enough to get rid of it. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 23:54, April 20, 2018 (UTC)	Votes for Magnetar Series 7 was the series of the flipper, won by a spinner. Series 10 was the series of the SPINNAHHHHH, won by a FLIPPAHHHHH. Magnetar has the best spinner in Robot Wars (IMO) and totally disproved my Series 8 concern about Pulsar's weapon being too fast to be effective. Magnetar has the clearance to get under Apollo and cause it major damage before it gets a chance to make the second flip. Jimlaad43(talk) 15:45, April 19, 2018 (UTC) Sure, Magnetar's srimech was unreliable, but then we also have to note how Apollo was unreliable in general. Sure, it did survive until the final two in the Rumble, but it should be noted once again that Apollo's drives can be exploited. I have to be honest, I agree with Jimlaad that Magnetar was the best spinner in Robot Wars, because I feel that not only was it powerful, but it was just relentless. Henceforth, Apollo to miss its first flip, enabling Magnetar to cause significant internal damage, where a few more blows should cause a knockout. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 17:12, April 19, 2018 (UTC) To win, Apollo needs two flips that get Magnetar right onto its back, and I just don't see that happening before it takes terminal damage. I believe Magnetar has the lower ground clearance and is the more nimble, and if Apollo takes any shots to the side wedges it's going over- the same kind of impact launched Rapid, I can see the same thing happening here. We know that Apollo isn't the most reliable machine, and if any machine can land the kind of hits to knock something out it's Magnetar. Combatwombat555 (talk) 18:28, April 19, 2018 (UTC)
Winner: Apollo (7-3)

Aftershock (3) vs Eruption (2)

Aftershock	Eruption
Votes for Aftershock I don't think the two respective fights between these two were that representative. The Series 9 final was after Aftershock had been Carbide'd, and the flipper damage allowed Eruption to score a cheap (but awesome) OotA. Aftershock showed against Rapid and Apollo that it can deal with flippers easily, and Eruption has showed countless times that it struggles against powerful flippers. Aftershock to tear apart an Eruption that has just been Magnetar'd and leave it upside-down with a mashed flipper. Jimlaad43(talk) 15:45, April 19, 2018 (UTC) Could we get a citation for how it struggles against powerful flippers? Considering it hasn't lost to one in any televised fights. Combatwombat555 (talk) 18:55, April 19, 2018 (UTC) I meant to write spinners. Flippers isn't really relevant to his fight. Jimlaad43(talk) 23:01, April 19, 2018 (UTC) We all know about Michael Oates' general driving prowess. He's solid, controlled, and well paced. Normally, you'd back Eruption's precision-milled front lip to make the different... but not against Aftershock. Watch the Series 9 fight again. Michael consistently tries to get Eruption's front lip under Aftershock, but he's so worried about making contact with Aftershock's spinner that he always twitches on the spot. These minor twitches open up Eruption's front left and right panels constantly - allowing Aftershock lots of hits. These hits bent up Eruption's front panels pretty badly. Not only this, but Aftershock was also able to connect to Eruption's side pods with some very chunky hits. Yes, Aftershock may have died against Eruption, but this was in the no way linked to this fight. As it is, Aftershock killed Eruption's drive on one side. Watch as Aftershock is being counted down, and you can see Eruption doing sharp turns to the left constantly in an attempt to move outside of its circumference. A completely battered Aftershock basically KO'd Eruption, and it'll carry out the blow while surviving itself this time. Just to conclude: Eruption managed all of three flips in the Series 9 fight, while a battered Aftershock landed a lot of hits - warping Eruption's bodywork, and making it lose drive. Nweston8 (talk) 17:31, April 19, 2018 (UTC) Nick summed up my thoughts very well. Aftershock was subtly heading for a victory in Series 9, and although Aftershock would not win this fight ten times out of ten - it would struggle to win it seven times out of ten - I think Aftershock is generally the safer design to win this match more often than not. TOAST 17:38, April 19, 2018 (UTC) That OotA in actual S10 was the result of a misunderstanding; with Aftershock entirely focussed on dealing with Eruption full on, I reckon it can just about see this one out. Hogwild94 (talk) 17:42, April 19, 2018 (UTC) Putting aside Nicks extremely valid point, you ever wonder WHY Eruption went for Aftershock before dealing with Crackers 'n' Smash in that controversial first battle? I think we all know the answer - Eruption saw Aftershock as the biggest threat. In a head-to-head battle with relatively little damage done to either, I was tempted to go for Eruption regardless, but I'm not so convinced now. CrashBash (talk) 18:27, April 19, 2018 (UTC)	Votes for Eruption God why/how did Behemoth win? (grumble) ah well I guess most people voted for different robots...they just were the same. Enough personal bitterness and on to my choice. I must admit, JimmybuckistanLaad has got a VERY convincing argument, however I feel Eruption's wins were rightful. I know that Aftershock was decimated during the Series 9 match but so was Eruption. In Series 10, we had a proper fight where by Aftershock was more distracted by the clusterbots. HOWEVER, I should note that Eruption was able to get underneath Aftershock (while still spinning I should also note) pretty much flawlessly. Not only that Eruption, seems to only have trouble against horizontal spinners and not vertical from what I've seen/gathered from the reboot era of Robot Wars. Therefore I believe Eruption should win this convincingly.Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 16:36, April 19, 2018 (UTC) Yeah, I have to say, not only is Eruption more reliable than Rapid, it also will not suffer the issues that Apollo had when facing Aftershock, namely a damaged arena. In addition, Eruption simply has the lower ground clearance that can easily get underneath the wedge of its opponent. This, combined with excellent control from Michael Oates, should see Aftershock get flipped several times without really retaliating. Aftershock can self-right, but I feel that the damage from each flip is surely going to take out the spinner eventually, leaving it stranded upside down and thus allowing Eruption to progress. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 17:12, April 19, 2018 (UTC) Look at how Aftershock was immobilised against Big Nipper- having to self-right enough times using the disc caused the weapon motor casing to shift, causing it to draw more current and fry itself. That sounds like something that could very easily happen against a flipper as good as Eruption. Given that Eruption has the stronger side panels this series too, I can see Michael Oates being a little less wary of Aftershock's disc this time, more willing to sweep underneath and get the flips in. Combatwombat555 (talk) 18:55, April 19, 2018 (UTC)
Winner: Aftershock (5-3)

Semi-Finals

Big Nipper vs Apollo (4)

Big Nipper	Apollo
Votes for Big Nipper	Votes for Apollo There was a 50% chance of this round being a case of "seen it" for both battles, giving us an unseeded Grand Final. However, we now have two battles we've never seen, so this should be fun. Big Nipper was unable to get past Eruption or TR2, and if Apollo has just survived Magnetar, it should survive Big Nipper. Jimlaad43(talk) 09:08, April 22, 2018 (UTC) Oh well, I was really hoping for the 'seen it' battles to set up an extremely interesting Grand Final, but Big Nipper's record against flippers speaks volume - not even in the classic series or the reboot had they beaten one in head-to-head combat. That's The Grimreaper, TR2, Dantomkia and Eruption against nobody. Apollo has the best flipper of the bunch and Big Nipper's probably feeling a bit knackered by now. TOAST 09:44, April 22, 2018 (UTC) I really want to vote for Big Nipper but alas I have nothing to say other than "it might pit Apollo" or "it might get behind and destroy?" Big Nipper's history with flippers says way too much and cannot be ignored sadly.Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 09:46, April 22, 2018 (UTC) Boy I was terrified Big Nipper would win this, but I am relieved to see Apollo 4 up. Big Nipper has an awful record against flippers. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 09:52, April 22, 2018 (UTC) Big Nipper would have only beaten Aftershock. No need to be so worried. CrashBash (talk) 13:54, April 22, 2018 (UTC) Apollo may have a genuine shout at becoming a two-time champion after dominating Big Nipper... SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 11:12, April 22, 2018 (UTC) Big Nipper may have been able to land a decent lift or two on Apollo in the 10 Robot Rumble, but its track record against rear-hinged flippers speaks for itself. Apollo to comfortably win the Judges' decision on aggression if it doesn't chuck the Nipper over the gates. VulcansHowl 12:21, April 22, 2018 (UTC) Everything that needs to be said has been said. On the other hand, though, if this were actually how Series 10 had played out, Big Nipper would have been the best performing Series 5 debutante. Not to mention the only one to escape the heats. CrashBash (talk) 13:56, April 22, 2018 (UTC) Big Nipper will definitely get a couple of attacks in. Apollo's length and Dave Young's slightly worse consistency at pressuring will allow Team Titanium in here and there. But it will largely be comfortable. This whole run from Apollo just proves to me, as I thought: Apollo is champion material in Series 10. Nweston8 (talk) 15:06, April 22, 2018 (UTC) Easy win for Apollo sets up a very interesting final whoever wins the second semi. Hogwild94 (talk) 17:53, April 22, 2018 (UTC)
Winner: Apollo (0-9)

Behemoth vs Aftershock (3)

Behemoth	Aftershock
Votes for Behemoth	Votes for Aftershock Behemoth may keep pushing Aftershock away, but it will eventually get hit on the scoop or the sides. This will cause damage that hinders Behemoth, and by the end of the battle, if Behemoth is still alive, the damage will be too much for the judges to ignore. Jimlaad43(talk) 09:08, April 22, 2018 (UTC) Aftershock has the perfect weapon to dispatch Behemoth, simply put the back end and sides are vulnerable (see Matilda's flywheel action in the reboot for visual proof for what happens when Behemoth gets hit). Not only that from what I've see from Behemoth's matches against vertical spinners, is that it tends to get knocked immobile by them (Sabretooth and Magnetar for examples) and so a giant blade like Aftershock is sure to decimate Behemoth's dreams. It'd also like to point out to though who may use the anti-spinner scoop argument and that is watch the match against Carbide closely and you'll note that the scoop didn't do much as protection (i.e. it was being completely destroyed even if it wasn't to be pitted) and also seemed too bulky to flip.Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 09:44, April 22, 2018 (UTC) I swear Behemoth ran into Matilda's flywheel once in every reboot series. Behemoth can't use its bucket at all in this match, otherwise Aftershock will immediately self-right and give the flipper a stiff upper lip. As a pure pusher, Behemoth's charges won't outweigh Aftershock's damage, and that's if Anthony decides NOT to get trigger-happy. TOAST 09:44, April 22, 2018 (UTC) ...Especially if Aftershock can beat Behemoth here. And I think it shall, seeing as the sides of Behemoth were always vulnerable to hits from flywheels. Not to mention, both Sabretooth and Magnetar caused serious internal damage to it, with Aftershock joining that group in my opinion after a few blows to its opponent. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 11:12, April 22, 2018 (UTC) Considering that Behemoth sustained plenty of damage against Magnetar, and was knocked out completely by Sabretooth, I'm not convinced that it will be able to survive long before Aftershock damages something crucial. There is the possibility of Aftershock's disc motor malfunctioning again after being forced to self-right by Behemoth's flips, but I would assume that Team Shock would have learnt from the Group Battles and decided to use the 24kg disc for this encounter. That weapon - with all of its teething troubles ironed out - is at least proven to last the distance... VulcansHowl 12:21, April 22, 2018 (UTC) Honestly, I feel Behemoth would have better luck if it used its anti-spinner scoop, but then you have to wonder, how on earth would it even fare against a vertical spinner? Can it still self-right with that attachment should Aftershock overturn it (everything I've seen seems to suggest the scoop is completely static)? There's just too many questionable possibilities going on here. Oh, BTW, I wouldn't be so sure about calling Apollo vs Behemoth a case of "seen it". Whilst Behemoth's victory was certainly legit and very stylish, it still came across as a little flukish - live event performances suggest that Apollo would generally have the advantage. But I guess we'll never be able to discuss that now. CrashBash (talk) 13:18, April 22, 2018 (UTC) Behemoth vs PP3D proves that the anti-spinner plough could still be used like the regular scoop, so self-righting shouldn't be an issue. VulcansHowl 13:50, April 22, 2018 (UTC) There's literally no way Apollo vs Behemoth again would be a "seen it" That was a complete fluke flip considering Apollo was the more dominative throughout the fight.Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 14:16, April 22, 2018 (UTC) This is actually very close, and I was thinking of a contrarian vote. Behemoth is very explosive, and even unclean lifts will knock Aftershock over. I expect Behemoth to dominate for good periods here. Do you know what I also predict to happen? Behemoth's link to fall out. It seems the link is situated right behind the lifting scoop, and if one alright slam from Sabretooth can dislodge it, a chunky hit from Aftershock can do likewise. Nweston8 (talk) 15:09, April 22, 2018 (UTC) This really won't be as one-sided a match as this vote would have you believe. But I just can't see Behemoth getting any meaningful flips. Ironically, I can see Aftershock doing just that. Hogwild94 (talk) 17:55, April 22, 2018 (UTC)
Winner: Aftershock (0-8)

History Corner

All Torque vs Centurion

All Torque	Centurion
Votes for All Torque A pretty controversial battle at the time, All Torque can come out and push Centurion around, not really being affected by the axe or lifters. With the pit release button now usable in the Series 7 arena, All Torque can get Centurion down the pit. Jimlaad43(talk) 12:16, April 24, 2018 (UTC) No doubt about this. All Torque is consistently aggressive, while Centurion loses drive if you sneeze on it. Nweston8 (talk) 14:58, April 24, 2018 (UTC) Neither machine is the most reliable, but All Torque should show enough aggression and pushing power to take the win, seeing as Centurion's weapons won't really be able to take advantage of it. That axe is not damaging those wheels in a hurry. Raz3r(talk) 16:07, April 24, 2018 (UTC) Easy win for All Torque I'd say. Not to mention that this Centurion just died randomly, that ground clearance looks rather suspect, and if All Torque uses the scoop weapon, it should win very easily. Hogwild94 (talk) 17:29, April 24, 2018 (UTC)	Votes for Centurion
Winner:

3rd Place Playoff

Big Nipper vs Behemoth

Big Nipper	Behemoth
Votes for Big Nipper Oh dear, I'm gonna say Big Nipper will win this. Now hear me out! The disc combination: Behemoth doesn't like vertical spinner, though Big Nippers is smaller it can give a massive it from the side and back and not only that Behemoth has just come back from a nasty attack from Aftershock... With the claw combination: The claws could get underneath and lift Behemoth, slamming it about. The claws (as seen with Terror Turtle, not the best comparison) can grab hold of the back end of Behemoth and crush, causing big Nipper to control Behemoth and shunt it into a hazard.Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 12:45, April 24, 2018 (UTC) In future Ragnabots, may I suggest we use Big Nipper (spinner) and Big Nipper (claws)? Could make all the difference in the world for a large range of fights. The reason I bring this up is I agree with Nick that Big Nipper would win with claws but not with the spinner. I cannot call which weapon Big Nipper will use, as the team knows it can beat Behemoth with the claws fairly easily, thanks to being more controlled, but used the spinner in all head-to-head fights with flippers in the reboot when the spinner was in working condition. Not to mention Behemoth's rearing. Raz3r(talk) 16:07, April 24, 2018 (UTC) The logic to use is: "If you think one configuration would win, but another won't, assume that the team would have chosen the one that would win, because that's how tactics work." Jimlaad43(talk) 16:38, April 24, 2018 (UTC) I'll switch over to here then, if the claw configuration is allowed. More precision, more care, and a chance to take advantage of Behemoth. Nweston8 (talk) 17:01, April 24, 2018 (UTC)	Votes for Behemoth Big Nipper would be better to go with the Claws I think, but it'll still be beaten by a well driven Behemoth. This would be a fantastic pushing war between two well driven robots that would be pretty equal. Jimlaad43(talk) 12:16, April 24, 2018 (UTC) If we aren't willing to entertain TAN beating the often-rearing, often overturning Behemoth, Big Nipper should have no hope here. The disc is even less likely to do damage. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 13:08, April 24, 2018 (UTC) Behemoth should just use its regular scoop weapon, and I'd say it'd win whichever weapon Big Nipper uses. Hogwild94 (talk) 17:30, April 24, 2018 (UTC) I've seen both these bots face each other in Robots Live and it's always been touch and go between them. Big Nipper's disc is not good against solid rammers so I suspect they'd use the claws. Behemoth seems to have the more effective scoop weapon so it should be able to get some good flips in to get the judges' decision. --Headbanger14/The Hardcore Kid 17:36, April 24, 2018 (UTC)
Winner:

Grand Final

Aftershock (3) vs Apollo (4)

Aftershock	Apollo
Votes for Aftershock And with that, we have our Grand Final, between two robots that didn't escape the heats IRL - one of which didn't even make the rumble. Apollo is going to have to hope the disc of Aftershock dies soon from the flipper, because it isn't going to enjoy the hits for long. I can just see this being a shredding by Aftershock. Jimlaad43(talk) 12:16, April 24, 2018 (UTC) I feel like the Series 9 Grand Final melee helps me determine this battle, especially if Apollo gets hit from behind. The fact that Sabretooth in the rumble was also able to cause heavy damage to Apollo, with a smaller vertical weapon, is a series 10 example and considering Aftershock improved as did Apollo I say this is a easy battle for me.Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 12:31, April 24, 2018 (UTC)	Votes for Apollo I'd be seriously tempted to go for Aftershock, and it's true it managed to cause some serious damage to Apollo in Series 9. But this particular version of Aftershock just seemed too unreliable. Lets not forget the fact its blade just stopped working in the playoff, seemingly with nothing to do with Big Nipper. Once that happens, and assuming Apollo can survive until then, all it needs is one flip...CrashBash (talk) 13:25, April 24, 2018 (UTC) Apollo in Series 10 is a more reliable machine. It can stand up to more stick, and its increased speed should also help it put pressure on Aftershock. I'm going for an Apollo win after a very good fight. Nweston8 (talk) 14:57, April 24, 2018 (UTC) In Audited Extreme 3, I backed Apollo, and I do so again here, with more confidence this time. Apollo has better armour than before, and did still get underneath Aftershock in Series 9, who doesn't seem to be as low at the front in this series, not to mention Apollo is more reliable and probably has a more powerful flipper than before. We know now that Aftershock can be flipped out of the arena, and the disc has stopped a couple of times after seemingly taking too much punishment. Apollo to tank Aftershock and get the necessary flips in to reclaim the title it lost last series. Raz3r(talk) 16:07, April 24, 2018 (UTC) Not going to use the Series 9 melee as crucial evidence, because while it is indeed true that Aftershock knocked out Apollo, it was only after the latter was crippled by Carbide and got stuck on a piece of the arena. With neither issue occurring here, Apollo should do well, getting underneath Aftershock and flipping its opponent high into the air. As Razer notes, Aftershock's disc can sometimes suffer terminal damage after sustaining hard knocks, so for me, Apollo will win by knockout. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 17:28, April 24, 2018 (UTC) Yeah, Apollo was not on top form in that Series 9 fight. On top form, as I suspect it would be, one flip, and Aftershock may well land on its disc while spinning at top speed and self destruct. Hogwild94 (talk) 17:32, April 24, 2018 (UTC)
Winner: