Forum:Dutch Series 3 Discussion

Forums: Index > Dutch Series 3 > Dutch Series 3 Discussion

Planning to get this tournament started on Wednesday. So, let's begin to discuss how Dutch Series 3 should be structured. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 15:26, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

Judges

Currently, the Judges are Toast and Diotoir. As host, I give up my position, meaning someone else is required to fill the role. Any takers?

If possible, I'll throw my hat into the ring. Adster1005 16:04, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

I do think the role should return to CrashBash if possible, with Jimlaad as next-in-line. TOAST 11:57, February 17, 2020 (UTC)

I'm happy to take the role, but I'm happy to let someone else do it too. CrashBash (talk) 12:41, February 17, 2020 (UTC)

30 or 40 robots?

The idea according to Crash and Toast was that we needed 30 robots. Based on the difficulties I had finding 40 robots without using almost every Dutch Series 2 machine (and then a few German robots), I believe 30 robots is ideal. But, does anyone want 40 machines? Curious.

Expand it to 40 if we find 40 robots, but from the sounds of it 30 is likely to be the number we have to go for. Jimlaad43(talk) 19:16, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

List of robots

So, who is going to compete? Need at least 30 robots, and based on Series 7, we have at least the following competitors:

1. Bamm Bamm
2. Gravity
3. Hammerhead 2
4. Hard
5. Krab-Bot
6. NEATer Machine
7. PulverizeR
8. Scraptosaur
9. Tartarus
10. Tough as Nails
11. Twister
12. Reaper NP2 (Possible, because of the fact that Sniper's team captain was part of the team)

We can probably add Philipper 2, based on it competing in Extreme 2. In addition, we know enough to include a few robots that failed to qualify for Series 7, including:

1. RCC 2 (I believe we have a low quality video that showcases it in action)
2. Slicer (Under Dutch Series 1 specifications)
3. Sniper (Again, Dutch Series 1 specifications)
4. Splinter (Under Series 5 specifications)

More machines are therefore needed. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 16:37, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

Just to let you know PulverizeR has been listed twice. Adster1005 16:23, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know, correction made! Seeing as CrashBash has made a great list utilising Dutch Robot Games, I have removed the final list completely. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 16:37, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

• Going off of Dutch Robot Games of 2003/2004 (estimated date) I'd be inclined to use machines such as these:

1. Snake Bite (Swiss)
2. The Black Beast (there was a successor created but can use original for simplicity sake)
3. Sater (again we could use the successor or we could just keep it simple)
4. Twisted Metal EVO (I know you've already put it up but just in case you wanna be creative, it could even have a flipper as an interchangable weapon)

If this might help, it might help: http://www.bugs.nl/media/source/rw/drg2003/ Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 16:00, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

Crash's suggestions

The discovery of details regarding the Dutch Robot Games live event Tough As Nails won prior to Series 7 proved to be quite useful in making this list. Anyone who was already in Series 7 is a must have as far as I'm concerned.

Dutch Robots

1. Twister (must have)
2. Gravity (must have)
3. Scraptosaur (must have)
4. Tartarus (must have)
5. Tough As Nails (must have)
6. NEATer Machine (must have)
7. Hammerhead 2 (must have)
8. Bamm Bamm (must have)
9. PulverizeR (World Championship and defending champion)
10. Slicer (tried to qualify, well represented)
11. Splinter (tried to qualify, well represented)
12. Sniper 2 (tried to qualify)
13. RCC 2 (tried to qualify. Blackdevil Warzone is a valid alternative, or stick with Splinter)
14. Alien Destructor 2 (DRG)
15. Das Gepack (DRG)
16. Sater 2 (DRG)
17. Lizzard (DRG)
18. Twisted Metal Evo (DRG)
19. The Black Beast (DRG)
20. Spike (DRG. Tyke is a valid alternative)
21. Meshuggah
22. Trazmaniac
23. Slamtilt
24. ODT-Zero

Belgian Robots

1. Hard (must have)
2. Caesar (tried to qualify. Pika 3 is a valid alternative)
3. Philipper 2 (DRG)
4. Project Two: Hex'em

British Robots

1. Krab-Bot (must have)
2. Edge Hog (DRG - was actually the runner up of said event, and wouldn't be an overpowered guest)

German Robots

1. Reaper NP2 (considering its team and Sniper's team essentially collaborated....)
2. I Bot One Beta (DRG)

CrashBash (talk) 16:05, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

Seems pretty good to me. The only concern I have is including Caesar, which according to Combatwombat only has an image linked to it and no footage. Would rather have Pika 3 or Snake Bite to be honest. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 16:37, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

Would prefer Pika 3 over Caesar. Adster1005 16:50, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

I mean we could have Snake Bite ;P but yeah I'm fine with Pika 3 or Caesar, but seeing as we only have a picture to go by for Caesar I'm more in favour of Pika 3. I was gonna do my own list but I think Crash has done a good job already :P Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 17:06, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

By my count, there's 31 there. We'd only have to get rid of one machine to make thirty, or bring nine in from DS2 to make 40. Adster1005 18:43, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

I'm all glad you like my suggestions, but do feel free to contribute your own, of course. I'm fine for Snake Bite too, BTW. CrashBash (talk) 19:00, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

Hmm, I'm gonna see if I could get 40 competitors, may obviously split it up in two with the "top thirty" and the extra ten IF we do use 40 in the end...Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 20:05, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

Diotoir's Suggestions

Here's hopefully 40 competitors with the top thirty being 100% ones. Obviously for the tome being I may have just over thirty as I continue my search through DRG.

Top thirty (must haves for reasons mainly expressed above)

1. PulveriseR
2. Tough As Nails
3. Twister
4. Gravity
5. Scraptosaur
6. Bamm Bamm
7. Hard
8. Hammer Head 2
9. Krab-Bot
10. Tartarus
11. Reaper NP2
12. NEATer Machine
13. Philiper 2
14. Slicer
15. Sniper
16. RCC 2
17. Alien Destructor
18. Lizzard
19. Twisted Metal EVO
20. Pika 3
21. The Black Beast
22. I Bot One Beta
23. Snake Bite
24. Sater
25. Spike
26. Project Two: Hex'em
27. Das Gepack
28. ODT-Zero
29. Splinter
30. Impact

Extra 10

1. Flextreme - Did fight in DRG, however it may have been in 2001/2002
2. Trazmaniac
3. Slamtilt
4. IDO
5. √3 - Fought in events around 2002-2003
6. The Lethal Swan - Fought in events around 2002-2003
7. Meshuggah
8. Caesar
9. Black Hole 2 - The rambot successor to Black Hole that appeared in DRG
10. Edge Hog

Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 20:06, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

Toast's Suggestions

This is of course heavily based on CrashBash's list, with a few tweaks and no German/Swiss robots included.

UK Series 7 Competitors

1. Twister
2. Gravity
3. Scraptosaur
4. Tartarus
5. Tough As Nails
6. NEATer Machine
7. Hammerhead 2
8. Bamm Bamm
9. PulverizeR
10. Hard (BEL)
11. Krab-Bot (RSA)

UK Series 7 DNQ

1. Splinter
2. RCC 2
3. Sniper (let's just use Sniper 1 as it seemingly attempted to enter the German series)
4. Caesar (no Pika 3)

Dutch Series 3 planned entry

1. √3 (had a new design for Dutch Series 3 but we'll use the old one)
2. Impact 2

Dutch Robot Games 2003

1. Philipper II (BEL)
2. Lizzard
3. Alien Destructor II
4. Das Gepäck
5. Twisted Metal Evo
6. Sater II
7. Spike (Team Tyke)

For Fun

1. Trazmaniac
2. ODT-Zero
3. Meshuggah
4. Flepser
5. Bloody Murder Weapon
6. Scarab Bluemax

TOAST 12:30, February 17, 2020 (UTC)

Format

Got a couple of options here. They include:

1. Option 1: Stick with Dutch Series 1 format. The only issue is picking wildcards for an eight robot Grand Final, which could be rectified by doing a five-way melee consisting of the heat finalists, then picking the three survivors.
2. Option 2: Utilise Series 10's format. Wildcards are still an issue.
3. Option 3: Toast's idea, involving keeping the format similar to Dutch Series 1, but with changes to how wildcards are picked. The five heat finalists are placed in a melee whereby the surviving two reach the Grand Final. Elsewhere, the Round 2 losers of each heat compete in a play-off to determine who enters the Second Round five-way melee, similar to Series 10's Rumble format. The winner of the melee also progress to the Grand Final.
4. Option 4: Toast's idea, but with the Series 10 format.
5. Option 5: Something else.

Option 3 (Toast's idea, Dutch Series 1 format)

1. Resolves the wildcard issue quite nicely. Am tempted to pick Option 4, should others prefer opening three-way melees. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 15:26, February 16, 2020 (UTC)
2. I'm a little torn between this and a four way melee format, as using this format sort of keeps tradition in a way but a four way melee is quite fun and a Hell of a lot more fun that a head to head. Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 15:48, February 16, 2020 (UTC)
3. Yeah, I prefer this method. But as Space says, will happily change if consensus says otherwise. Adster1005 16:07, February 16, 2020 (UTC)
4. The four-way melee would only really work if we got 40 robots, and this works just as nicely. CrashBash (talk) 16:09, February 16, 2020 (UTC)
5. Yeah, I'll go with that. Hogwild94 (talk) 19:27, February 16, 2020 (UTC)
6. Although I don't really enjoy the big rumbles, I do enjoy the idea of having a third place play-off (with a purpose) in each heat, hence this structure idea. TOAST 12:32, February 17, 2020 (UTC)

Option 4 (Toast's idea, four-way opening melees)

1. BTW, if we do get 40 robots, I'm all for this idea too. CrashBash (talk) 09:22, February 17, 2020 (UTC)

Option 5 (Something else)

1. I'd suggest we do the 5-way melee with the heat finalists but for just one Wildcard place, leaving the Grand Final with 6 robots to be done in the same way as the heats. Jimlaad43(talk) 12:55, February 17, 2020 (UTC)

   So basically like BuggleBots then. CrashBash (talk) 13:22, February 17, 2020 (UTC)

   I confess I have no idea what BuggleBots is or their format, so that comment means nothing to me. Please elaborate. Jimlaad43(talk) 13:46, February 17, 2020 (UTC)

   It's a web-series with beetleweight robots. It's well worth a look. CrashBash (talk) 14:14, February 17, 2020 (UTC)

Seeds

Some support for seeds in this tournament was noted. 5 or 10, though?

SpaceManiac888

If we are having five seeds, we may as well base it on Dutch Series 2 results!

1. PulverizeR
2. Philipper 2
3. Scraptosaur
4. Krab-Bot
5. Bamm Bamm

Decided to place Krab-Bot above Bamm Bamm, since Crushtacean won its heat and had success in other competitions. Bamm Bamm... kind of didn't, but its win over Lizzard earns it a place in the top five regardless.

If we want to add another five seeds, here are my suggestions.

1. Lizzard
2. Twister
3. Gravity
4. Twisted Metal Evo
5. Slicer

Lizzard outranks Twister because the former won its heat. Twister outranks Gravity and Twisted Metal Evo, because all three made it to the Heat Finals, but Twister was picked as a wildcard ahead of the others. Gravity outplaces Twisted Metal Evo because of the potential surrounding the new design. Meshuggah is not seeded because although a "Grand Finalist", it failed, unlike Bamm Bamm, to take full advantage of it, losing at an early stage. Slicer therefore gets the final spot, being the Dutch Series 1 champion looking to reclaim a title it never actually lost. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 15:26, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

Adster1005

If we're having a group consensus I'll weigh in, if not, feel free to delete. May I suggest:

1. PulverizeR
2. Philipper 2
3. Scraptosaur
4. Lizzard
5. Krab-Bot
6. Bamm Bamm
7. Twister
8. Meshuggah
9. Gravity/Twisted Metal Evo/Pika 3
10. Gravity/Twisted Metal Evo/Pika 3 OR Slicer, if we decide it's in.(one of two not mentioned above)

PulverizeR, Philipper 2 and Scraptosaur are self-explanatory, I'm putting Lizzard in at 4, despite it being a Grand Final first-round taller, it won it's heat and was Series 1 runner-up. I've then gone for Krab-Bot because it won Heat C, the same heat Bamm Bamm was in, and also fell in the first round. Twister reached the Heat Final, and Meshuggah reached the second round. Regarding the bottom 2 seeds, I don't mind which of the three take 9 or which of the three take 10, simply because they all have a reason to have a spot there. Pika 2 was Belgian Champion in Series 1, Twisted Metal Evo was a Heat Finalist, as was Gravity, but that performed well in UK Series 7, and then Slicer was Dutch 1 Champion. Adster1005 17:51, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

No Seeds

• Dutch Series 2 didn't even come close to having a seeding system, lumping two of its three returning heat winners in the same episode. With the reboot of Robot Wars following this mentality too, I'd rather stick to true randomness. TOAST 12:13, February 17, 2020 (UTC)

• Honestly, I'd prefer this too. I think it really worked in the context for the reboot and there's no reason why it shouldn't work here too. CrashBash (talk) 12:43, February 17, 2020 (UTC)

• Same here, we could get some really shocking Heats! Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 12:51, February 17, 2020 (UTC)

• This is my vote too. Jimlaad43(talk) 12:56, February 17, 2020 (UTC)

Special events

Not sure about special events this time, as they haven't really been that popular as of late. The only idea I have is Germany vs The Netherlands, based on an idea some had back in Audited Series 6. We could perhaps do this after the main tournament ends. Other than that, nothing really, unless others have better ideas. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 15:26, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

1. I mean we could have a Dutch Annihilator as that's the sort of special event that the European Robot Wars seemed to have missed out on whilst everything else did. We could literally use a bunch of round 1 losers for this (to give them a second chance perhaps?) plus it's an annihilator, it'll be fun seeing who would win out of a random batch of robots and the potential shocks as favourites lose.Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 15:50, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

I'm straight up all for Diotoir's idea, especially if it is using first round fallers. CrashBash (talk) 16:39, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, an Annihilator would be interesting. May I also suggest a potential Tag Team Terror or even an International Tag Team Terror with German or British machines we might be using. Adster1005 16:55, February 16, 2020 (UTC)

I'm definitely all for the International Tag Team Terror. We could easily have four teams - one Dutch, one Belgian, one British and one German - and pull off something there. It doesn't have to be big, after all. CrashBash (talk) 09:29, February 17, 2020 (UTC)

With a format of five heats, we lose ten robots in the first round. Hence, I'd like to throw six of those robots into a Dutch Annihilator, and put the remaining four into a Netherlands vs Germany event, alongside two upper-tier robots that can contest with the likes of Ansgar 3 and (if included) Tsunami. TOAST 12:15, February 17, 2020 (UTC)

I'd also like to propose some weapon themed battles. Looking at our available possibilities, we'd have enough to do a Flipper Frenzy, an Axe Attack and a Battle of the Spinners. We may even have enough to do a Crusher Crunch-Up. CrashBash (talk) 14:29, February 17, 2020 (UTC)

If the idea of including Swedish, Swiss, Austrian and Italian robots is scrapped, why not do a European melee or something for robots like Snake Bite, Rawbot and maybe Topbot? But yeah, all we need is an Annihilator, Tag Team Terror and maybe a Trials-based tournament like Sumo Basho or Pinball and that'd probably be enough. Jimlaad43(talk) 14:40, February 17, 2020 (UTC)

Or a mini European Championship would be doable. CrashBash (talk) 15:10, February 17, 2020 (UTC)