Votes for S.M.I.D.S.Y.
- Now before anyone cites S.M.I.D.S.Y.'s troubles against Chaos 2, Dantomkia and Atomic, let's analyse Bulldog Breed first. As great a robot it was, Bulldog Breed had a few problems that make it vulnerable to S.M.I.D.S.Y.. Firstly, whereas the three flippers I previously mentioned were explosive, Bulldog Breed really wasn't. Pretty much, the trio overwhelmed S.M.I.D.S.Y., preventing it from achieving any good pushes. Bulldog Breed was rather inconsistent in this regard, because of its control. Most of the time, Bulldog Breed was a bat out of hell, sometimes doing well (throwing out Pussycat of course), and sometimes just outright missing its opponent or suffering more than its foe (against Hypno-Disc especially). And finally, the Series 6 Bulldog Breed had a surprisingly massive ground clearance at the sides and rear! So yes, while I suspect Bulldog Breed might achieve a few flips, its inability to overwhelm its opponent here, combined with lapses in control and a high ground clearance, will enable S.M.I.D.S.Y. to wedge in underneath and shove its foe around with authority. Bulldog Breed's boxy shape makes this especially easy to do. I should also mention just how relentless S.M.I.D.S.Y. was against Dominator 2, an opponent with better control and a more awkward shape, with a damaging weapon to boot. Bulldog Breed ultimately may just be victimised by too many good pushes, which will outweigh the aggression and control points that its flips may achieve. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 08:25, August 10, 2020 (UTC)
- I'll agree with that, and I'd go further with Bulldog Breed's control. It either seemed to be incredibly aggressive or incredibly ponderous, taking an age to line up flips - in its Series 6 melee, for example, it flipped Spin Doctor, lobbed RoT&S over, and then took an age to flip Spin Doctor again to eliminate it - and in a fight where it can't easily kill off S.M.I.D.S.Y. I think these passive segments will really cost it. Combatwombat555 (talk) 09:01, August 10, 2020 (UTC)
- Bulldog Breed was having a decent Series 6 up until this point, as was S.M.I.D.S.Y., having dominated it's first round melee. And they both will have had the same happen here. S.M.I.D.S.Y. gave Dominator II a real challenge, and who's to say it won't happen here. S.M.I.D.S.Y. in Actual Series 6 was dogged and determined and I see it avoiding the flipper, getting the disc in to score a few damage points. Bulldog can get a few flips in, but I see S.M.I.D.S.Y. also getting pushes in, and S.M.I.D.S.Y. might be able to pit Bulldog Breed, but if not, I see S.M.I.D.S.Y. winning a Judges' Decision. Adster1005 11:15, August 10, 2020 (UTC)
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Votes for Bulldog Breed
- SMIDSYs record against flippers (Beast and St Agro) doesn’t give me confidence it can beat Bulldog Breed. No reason to think it won’t get stranded on the wall or just lobbed around like against Atomic or Dantomkia or Chaos 2. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 09:53, August 10, 2020 (UTC)
- Had a thought about this and honestly I really disagree with what Space and Combat have been saying. Bulldog Breed, by this point, was more streamlined and aggressive, look at how it dealt with Pussycat and Diotoir in a matter of a minute, it was so quick and so on the move that honestly, as much as I love S.M.I.D.S.Y., it's history with flippers wasn't the best and Bulldog Breed having "no explosive power" seems a bit of an odd statement, as I mention the Extreme 2 examples and even in Series 6's first round melee it had quite a bit of explosive power, not as great as Chaos 2 nor Atomic's but decent enough to chuck and even strand S.M.I.D.S.Y. if given the chance. I just see S.M.I.D.S.Y. being chucked about and the Bulldog being extremely aggressive in its approach.Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 10:16, August 10, 2020 (UTC)
- There won't be an OotA, but even just a couple of flips from Bulldog Breed will outweigh anything that S.M.I.D.S.Y. can really do. I'm sure S.M.I.D.S.Y. will produce some lovely titanium sparks off Bulldog Breed's shell but not cause actual damage of note. Bulldog Breed only needs to get S.M.I.D.S.Y. over once to leave its wedge useless until it's next flipped over again. While S.M.I.D.S.Y. consistently had the quality and determination to push through to the upper halves of tournaments, it was never a major threat to the heat winner levels. Why is this a split vote again? I remember when Bulldog Breed was used as a device to get rid of Pulsar, feels odd to try and sacrifice it against S.M.I.D.S.Y. now. TOAST 11:29, August 10, 2020 (UTC)
- Bulldog Breed is just as capable at getting around SMIDSY's sides as vice versa, and the attacks Bulldog Breed can deal out will look far more impressive on the score-sheet. Bulldog Breed wasn't the most devastating flipper in the arena, but it still got the better of a lot of good machines. SMIDSY would fare no better against Bulldog Breed than someone like Lightning did in the Tag Team Terror I think, a robot I think is much lower all round than SMIDSY, especially around the sides. Time and time again, SMIDSY had very little in the way of answers when it faced a robot with a good weapon that utilised said weaponry effectively. SMIDSY handled Dominator 2 competently early on, but once the attacks started coming down on SMIDSY it didn't respond well, even before the Growler slam. If pressure was constantly put on SMIDSY, it simply couldn't hack it, breaking down or slowing down considerably. This has been showcased not just by Dominator 2 in Series 6, but Pussycat in Extreme 1, Chaos 2 in Series 5, Dantomkia, Terrorhurtz and X-Terminator in Extreme 2, and Atomic twice in Series 7. That's a lot of machines, and I think Bulldog Breed can do the exact same thing, getting some decent flips in, constantly worrying SMIDSY until the onslaught becomes too much. Raz3r(talk) 11:42, August 10, 2020 (UTC)
- That feels very harsh on S.M.I.D.S.Y. Among those you've listed are the then-reigning champion, the then-second placed robot, and the then-fourth placed robot - none of which Bulldog Breed is the same calibre as, and none of which I could see Bulldog Breed defeating - and S.M.I.D.S.Y. put up a decent fight against most of the remaining ones, only dying against Dantomkia after a half-ton House Robot rolled over it and very much holding its own against X-Terminator before being let down by its team mate. Atomic I'll give you, but that's a flipper with much more power and to be honest much better driven than Bulldog Breed. Combatwombat555 (talk) 12:34, August 10, 2020 (UTC)
- Perhaps I'm being a little overcritical of its reliability, but even then, it has other ways to lose easily I think. SMIDSY is a very easy shape to prop up against the arena wall, and was done so no less than four times by three opponents: Chaos 2 twice in the heat final (before and after the restart), Dantomkia in the Challenge Belt and Atomic in the Series 7 melee, none of which SMIDSY got back down from without some sort of outside intervention. Bulldog Breed is quite capable of delivering the same sort of attack, as it did the exact same against Lightning in the Tag Team Terror, and the Series 6 version is pretty much exactly the same as in Extreme 2. Raz3r(talk) 16:03, August 10, 2020 (UTC)
- S.M.I.D.S.Y., according to one of the team members, managed to free itself, albeit after 45 seconds, but when in the right position, I suppose I could see a scenario where it does manage to free itself. Adster1005 18:09, August 10, 2020 (UTC)
- Yeah, I'm siding with Bulldog Breed here. Even though their OOTA record pales in comparison to Dantomkia, Chaos 2 or even Series 7 Atomic, it wasn't for lack of trying. S.M.I.D.S.Y. will likely see itself stranded for the KO or simply tossed around the arena until they lose the JD. For how aggressive S.M.I.D.S.Y. may be in retaliation, Bulldog Breed's flips will always look more visually impressive. SFCJack (talk) 11:55, August 10, 2020 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, S.M.I.D.S.Y.'s history against flippers speaks for itself. By this Bulldog Breed is far closer to Atomic or Dantomkia level than St Agro or 8645T level, and S.M.I.D.S.Y. will struggle because of that. It also doesn't help that S.M.I.D.S.Y.'s scoop will be almost useless upside down. CrashBash (talk) 15:30, August 10, 2020 (UTC)
- Yeah, I almost always back a competent flipper against S.M.I.D.S.Y., can't really argue against doing so this time. Hogwild94 (talk) 17:43, August 10, 2020 (UTC)
- I can only really see a sprinkling of Bulldog Breed flips, followed by S.M.I.D.S.Y. randomly breaking. NJGW (talk) 01:27, August 12, 2020 (UTC)
- S.M.I.D.S.Y. was not Tornado and wouldn't be able to deal with being flipped as well as the red box would. A good few flips from Bulldog Breed will knock S.M.I.D.S.Y. and it'll stop being as effective as the time continues on. I don't see a KO either way, but BB on the judges. Jimlaad43(talk) 07:42, August 12, 2020 (UTC)
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