Forum:International Series 6 Semi-Final 2

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Defending champion Razer continued its defence with some dominating victories over Stinger and Rosie the Riveter 2. Meanwhile, Behemoth's redemption run sees the yellow and black machine finally reach the Grand Final, defeating Ming 3 and German flipper Tsunami in the process. Two British machines in the Grand Final, but the International cast need not worry, based on the quality of three such competitors here in the second Semi-Final, versus Britain's cream of the crop. Let's have a look at how they got here.:

• Bigger Brother dominated its heat, and appears to be well on its way to reaching the Grand Final again with the hopes of stepping on the top podium. Sir Chromalot was unable to avenge its Series 3 loss, again being flipped to oblivion, while Lightning Tracks had no answer to the Series 5 runners-up.
• Bulldog Breed finally proved it could win a heat, after two consecutive Heat Final losses. It defeated the ever unfortunate S.M.I.D.S.Y. in a close Judges' decision, before achieving a flip of doom to eliminate former US Grand Finalist The Revolutionist. A place in the Grand Final is within its grasp.
• Propeller-Head showed that its Grand Finalist status in Season 2 of Extreme Warriors was no fluke. ICU was torn apart by the American spinner, while the Belgian hopeful Philipper 2 just could not withstand the damage inflicted to it despite some resistance here and there. Perhaps another Grand Final run is on the cards?
• Fluffy, after its misfortune against Pussycat the previous series, ascended to Semi-Final status by outmatching the explosive Corkscrew, and the plucky Barbaric Response, taking both out in a few blows. It will be unlikely that Fluffy can win future matches that quickly, but do not underestimate its power!
• Black Hole has proved it has what it takes to compete on an international basis, the German champion defeating Dutch Grand Finalist Lizzard in expert fashion, before outmatching the well-controlled Probophobia and the dangerous Vader. Black Hole may well become a double champion if it can keep this up!
• Finally, Bamm Bamm is amazingly our only Dutch Semi-Finalist in this entire tournament! It had some issues against Buzz and Shredder, but the double Dutch Grand Finalist proved that good control and well-timed axe blows are all it needs to turn the tide of battle. Do not underestimate it, especially now that it will be carrying the Dutch hopes on its back!

So, LET THE WARS BEGIN!

Round 1

Bigger Brother (3) vs Bulldog Breed

Bigger Brother	Bulldog Breed
Votes for Bigger Brother #We start with a very interesting flipper frenzy. Generally speaking, I think both machines are prone to being toppled by each other. Indeed, Bigger Brother's compact shape will make it an easy target to flip for Bulldog Breed, but the dog's classic shape seems prone to being quickly toppled over if Bigger Brother can muscle its way towards the sides. Therefore, with so many flips occurring by both opponents, who should win? I think Bigger Brother has one advantage over Bulldog Breed that may help achieve a narrow win. Notably, Bulldog Breed has a high ground clearance at the rear and sides, as well as a bulky shape that can be trapped at times. If Bigger Brother wedges underneath, it can achieve the clamp technique that although will not result in a pitting, at least allows it to push and control Bulldog Breed's movements for a time, giving it vital control points needed to sway the Judges to its side. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 10:48, 26 September 2020 (UTC) A tough battle but I see Bigger Bother, despite how wedgy and flat Bulldog Breed is, being able to get a soft spot by the sides and flipping Bulldog Breed with aggression and spite. That said Bulldog Breed could throw Bigger Brother over and the threat of an OOtA is possible but I do think the smaller more compact design should be the more controlling.Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 11:10, 26 September 2020 (UTC) Bigger Brother easily dominated Chaos 2 in the previous series, and Bulldog Breed has gaping ground clearances around the sides and back which Bigger Brother can easily exploit and win convincingly. Jimlaad43(talk) 11:24, 26 September 2020 (UTC) While I am still backing Bigger Brother, I am not sure the Chaos 2 comparison is fair. Bulldog Breed is a heavier and bulkier opponent, and we can note that Bigger Brother had some issues flipping bulky, heavy machines like Colossus and U.R.O.. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 11:27, 26 September 2020 (UTC) Bigger Brother just straight up did not beat Chaos 2 easily. It got the first attack in, and was then chucked around the arena multiple times in a row, before the KO roll over. NJGW (talk) 14:10, 26 September 2020 (UTC) Bulldog Breed might have the more powerful flipper, but Bigger Brother is so much better driven. Bulldog Breed spends a lot of time over-steering, having to correct, and being generally very ponderous - the difference is possibly best seen when the two robots were on the same football team at Techno Games, and Bigger Brother's driving was just a class apart. I can just see Ian Watts baiting a flip from Bulldog Breed, then getting to its side and throwing it over - and that happening repeatedly. Bigger Brother's shape is also more conducive to just rolling back over and landing on its wheels, which we saw against Chaos 2; a lot of Chaos 2's flips were effectively wasted because Bigger Brother didn't need to self-right, and I can see the same happening here. If it goes into a long, drawn-out fight, Bigger Brother's just got more staying power. Combatwombat555 (talk) 15:52, 26 September 2020 (UTC) Oh stick it, I'll give it to Bigger Brother just about, I think it'll be more controlled and aggressive to take the Judges' decision. These battles get harder and harder each time. Adster1005 17:54, 27 September 2020 (UTC) A very close call, but I'm just going with Bigger Brother here based on more experience and pedigree, and Bulldog Breed's flat sides leaving it more prone to getting momentarily stuck and vulnerable to multiple attacks. Hogwild94 (talk) 17:56, 27 September 2020 (UTC)	Votes for Bulldog Breed Gonna turn some heads and pick the Bulldog. Both will get flips on each other - Bigger B will be lower at the front but Bulldog B has more range of attack and can capitalise on B Brother rearing up. In the end, B Bulldog has the more powerful flipper to earn more points with, and will be more persuasive in the end. TOAST 11:21, 26 September 2020 (UTC) This is another battle I saw at a live event (albeit Scorpion was also involved, where it was still allowed to use its disc), and Bulldog Breed ended up winning reasonably comfortably. I mean, I know live event doesn't mean much, Bulldog Breed does have a wider flipper than Bigger Brother and that to me suggests it should be more likely to get underneath. Often with flipper wars the width of the plate is just as important as the power in the tank. CrashBash (talk) 13:37, 26 September 2020 (UTC) Well, I was only narrowly backing Bigger Brother previously, so the fact CrashBash states Bulldog Breed defeated it somewhat comfortably in real-life, gives me enough evidence to back the non-seed here. I am not concerned with Scorpion's presence in that battle, Bigger Brother had tough armour back then that could resist several blows from that spinner. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 18:09, 26 September 2020 (UTC) Happened...Ok that’s a stretch but I agree that the width of the flipper counts, and Bulldog Breed was rarely flipped with only the wide plate of Barbaric Response doing it on a side attack. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 22:24, 26 September 2020 (UTC) I honestly think this decision is quite ruff... Bigger Brother has the ease of self righting to its advantage, yes, but Bulleog Breed is the more ideally offensive robot here, wide plate, bulky machine, fast movement. I think it’ll keep Bigger Brother on the back foot all fight and win via the judges. RelicRaider (talk) 03:57, 27 September 2020 (UTC) I'm not somebody who often fancies Bigger Brother to dominate a pure flipper on flipper fight, and I do think Bulldog Breed can get some joy at that wide, rounded shape. Crash's extra mention also convinces me. NJGW (talk) 19:38, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
Winner: Bulldog Breed (6-5)

Propeller-Head vs Fluffy

Propeller-Head	Fluffy
Votes for Propeller-Head I see this like the Stinger fight or even the Revolutionist fight where by the damaging/aggressive robot (Fluffy/The Revloytionist) will come in and cause severe damage maybe close to destroying it opponent (Stinger/Propeller-Head until it's opponent, who seemingly doesn't die, pushed back and fights back through careful control, in which case, the damaging and aggressive one is put on the back foot allowing the durable one to get a shock win.Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 11:13, 26 September 2020 (UTC)	Votes for Fluffy Not really sure who to back here, to be honest. As tempting as it is to say "Fluffy will break off Propeller-Head's propeller", the argument for "Propeller-Head to grind Fluffy to a halt" seems very appealing too. That said, I will narrowly back Fluffy. While Fluffy's reliability record is awful, it should be noted that it took relentless pounding for Stinger to take it out in Series 6, something that most other opponents would struggle to survive against. Also of note is that Fluffy's record against spinners is amazingly very positive. Aside from its bad luck against Pussycat, it expertly took out Corkscrew and 259 without suffering too badly. While Propeller-Head is more reliable, I am not sure that it has a better spinner compared to the machines Fluffy beat, and it will certainly bare the scars if it is unable to take out Fluffy quickly. Therefore, benefit of the doubt goes to Fluffy for now, more so if someone can convince me that Propeller-Head's propeller will fall off early on. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 10:48, 26 September 2020 (UTC) Gonna back Fluffy who by now has reasonable benefit of the doubt with reliability. If The Revolutionist could unwind Propeller-Head's blade then Fluffy can for sure, and it'll continue to cause key damage while the bar remains active. It will pack in later, but PH will already be disarmed. TOAST 11:19, 26 September 2020 (UTC) When the weapons collide, Fluffy's smaller, heavier and more compact design, especially as it's supported on top as well as below, means it will come out on top. Propeller-Head's spinner isn't exactly guaranteed to fly off, but I can see Fluffy finding the armour of Propeller-Head and causing some proper damage earlier in the fight than PH wearing through Fluffy's sides. PH to be killed off by the three-headed dog. Jimlaad43(talk) 11:26, 26 September 2020 (UTC) A weapon-to-weapon clash is inevitable, and one that Fluffy should come out better from - maybe Propeller-Head's spinner won't come off, but I can't imagine the comparatively spindly blade will be particularly healthy after that either. Propeller-Head will hang in there and continue to be aggressive, staying on top of Fluffy most of the time, but I think damage will be decisive. Combatwombat555 (talk) 15:56, 26 September 2020 (UTC) In a weapon clash, I see Fluffy coming out on top, and Fluffy can then take advantage and therefore a Judges' victory thanks to an initial hit. Adster1005 22:05, 26 September 2020 (UTC) Fluffy's spinner is probably similar enough to The Revolutionist's, and we saw how poor Propeller-Head fared there. Only difference is Fluffy won't be so easy to catch unawares and pit. Hogwild94 (talk) 17:57, 27 September 2020 (UTC) I'm really not sure. I'm not sure how long Propeller-Head's weapon will last or if it will come off or not, but I'm equally unsure if Fluffy will hold on before the inevitable breakdown happens...sure, it seemed more reliable in Series 6 than other series, but it's hard to say. I'm voting for Fluffy on the virtue it's winning and I doubt I'd change anyone's minds if I did vote for Propeller-Head, but I'm not entirely happy with it. CrashBash (talk) 18:04, 27 September 2020 (UTC) As the years have passed, I have slowly rated Fluffy's raw power/consistency of power less, but I think it'll overpower Propeller-Head here and hit it in some dangerous areas. NJGW (talk) 19:39, 27 September 2020 (UTC)
Winner: Fluffy (8-1)

Black Hole (5) vs Bamm Bamm (19)

Black Hole	Bamm Bamm
Votes for Black Hole Yup, incredibly Bamm Bamm is the last Dutch machine left in the tournament! A horrible campaign by the rest of the Dutch: Series 2 cast, and I doubt Bamm Bamm will go much further. Indeed, Black Hole can probably dodge Bamm Bamm's initial attack, before just whacking the circular machine and overturning it in the process. Bamm Bamm will self-right, but ultimately, unless it can achieve a very lucky knockout hit on its foe, it stands no chance against the relentless pounding from the German spinner. I suspect a knockout will occur. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 10:48, 26 September 2020 (UTC) After two pretty close battles we have this...Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 11:07, 26 September 2020 (UTC) Could Black Hole be on track for the final? TOAST 11:17, 26 September 2020 (UTC) Whamm Bamm Danke Frau. Jimlaad43(talk) 11:27, 26 September 2020 (UTC) A one and done, perhaps? There is a possibility if Black Hole hits Bamm Bamm hard enough to knock it over whilst its axe is extended, then follows through with a slam that breaks the weapon altogether. Even beyond that I see a dominant performance. CrashBash (talk) 13:38, 26 September 2020 (UTC) Another victim of spaghettification. Combatwombat555 (talk) 15:57, 26 September 2020 (UTC) Black Hole could make the Grand Final, let's hope so. Need time to think on BB vs BB. Adster1005 22:06, 26 September 2020 (UTC) Not even close, Black Hole gives Bamm Bamm a good whacking. Hogwild94 (talk) 17:58, 27 September 2020 (UTC) Yeah, Bamm Bamm is sadly out of its depth against damaging machines. NJGW (talk) 19:40, 27 September 2020 (UTC)	Votes for Bamm Bamm
Winner: Black Hole (9-0)

Losers Melee

Bigger Brother (3) vs Propeller-Head vs Bamm Bamm (19)

Bigger Brother	Propeller-Head	Bamm Bamm
Votes for Bigger Brother A very good opening battle where unfortunately, I am not sure the outcome really mattered in the grand scheme of things. I think the flipper can topple both opponents without too much trouble. Indeed, if Propeller-Head bounces into Bamm Bamm at first, this will give Bigger Brother the chance to overturn it. Plus, Bigger Brother was just incredibly durable against spinners during this time period, not sure if Propeller-Head can really deal much to it. Meanwhile, Bamm Bamm's srimech can be somewhat questioned, making me doubt it can right itself after a few flips from the third seed. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 07:48, 28 September 2020 (UTC) I dunno, I think Propeller-Head might have been more likely to win if Bulldog Breed had been present. Honestly, when its blade is spinning, I'd imagine it would be almost impossible to flip over. When it hits Bigger Brother, though, the blade will obviously stop for a moment and that'll give Bigger Brother more than enough time to flip it. Bamm Bamm is a non-factor either way. CrashBash (talk) 07:55, 28 September 2020 (UTC) Space and Crash are spot on. Bigger Brother would certainly win this melee, while Bulldog Breed would "probably" win this melee. I think Propeller-Head would have slightly more of a fighting chance if Bulldog Breed was here, but I'd still vote for the UK flipper either way. The top seed returns! TOAST 09:37, 28 September 2020 (UTC) Yep.Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 10:27, 28 September 2020 (UTC) Yeah, this is pretty clear cut. Propeller-Head's not causing enough damage to immobilise Bigger Brother before it gets flipped, and Bamm Bamm's axe certainly isn't on a par with Terrorhurtz or Dominator 2. THE NETHERLANDS ELIMINATED - 3 COUNTRIES REMAINING Combatwombat555 (talk) 10:34, 28 September 2020 (UTC) The American and The Dutch are both getting flipped relatively soon here. Adster1005 14:30, 28 September 2020 (UTC) Bigger Brother will just reverse at Propeller-Head if it feels scared of the spinner's power. Otherwise it'll just chuck it high enough for the blade to land awkwardly at an angle and get loose. Bamm Bamm to be dealt with without much second thought. Jimlaad43(talk) 15:59, 28 September 2020 (UTC) Yeah, it didn't really matter who won that BB flipper fight, whoever lost was gonna win this easily. Hogwild94 (talk) 20:59, 28 September 2020 (UTC)	Votes for Propeller-Head	Votes for Bamm Bamm
Winner: Bigger Brother (8-0)

Round 2

Bulldog Breed vs Fluffy

Bulldog Breed	Fluffy
Votes for Bulldog Breed Going to put faith in the bulldog again. It could absolutely lose this one in just one or two side-on attacks, Fluffy can put out equivalent power to Hypno-Disc, but I think Fluffy should invite Bulldog to go head on instead of trying to navigate to the side of Hypno-Disc, and this will work out better for the titanium dog until it manages to disable Fluffy's blade. TOAST 09:42, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Fluffy never took hard knocks well, and if Bulldog Breed can flip Hypno-Disc a few good times, it should be more than capable of flipping Fluffy until something gives. Hogwild94 (talk) 17:41, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Yeah, I agree with Toast and Hogwild. Adster1005 16:32, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Fluffy can take a while to properly get going, so even though Bulldog Breed's recklessness is usually a weakness, I think it can keep on top of Fluffy here until some familiar issues set in. NJGW (talk) 16:44, 1 October 2020 (UTC)	Votes for Fluffy Was meant to update yesterday but ran out of time, oh well. Well, the draw ensures we are going to have a run that exceeds all expectations, regardless of who wins! Of the two, I honestly think this is an easy win for Fluffy. Yes, good flippers, like Bigger Brother for example, can defeat Fluffy by performing some well-timed attacks. Problem is, they need durability as well. While Bulldog Breed flipped Hypno-Disc once, it was not enough to defeat the spinner, nor will it be enough to beat Fluffy. And as Fluffy begins landing hits, Bulldog Breed's mobility will become just as compromised as before. Fluffy possibly in the Last 8, huh? Pretty good run so far! SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 08:05, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Bulldog Breed's history against big spinners isn't the best, and Fluffy certainly has the power to cause BB issues. It won't be instant, and Bulldog should get a flip or two in, but Fluffy should wear into the side and back of Bulldog, eventually knocking it out with a solid hit on the rear. Jimlaad43(talk) 08:55, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Whilst Fluffy was unreliable, Bulldog breed had a pretty awful history with big spinners and...yeah.Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 09:44, 30 September 2020 (UTC) It's hard to say which will give first, but given how relatively quickly Hypno-Disc shut down Bulldog Breed on two occasions, I'm gonna say Fluffy achieves it as well, before it randomly breaks down. CrashBash (talk) 16:22, 1 October 2020 (UTC) My concern is that it really didn't take much for Hypno-Disc to knock out Bulldog Breed. After 3 hits, none of which were particularly large, Bulldog Breed was immobile on one side and a sitting duck - and Fluffy's spinner is about the same mass as Hypno-Disc's and significantly faster. Unless Bulldog Breed gets a flip that causes Fluffy to land on its bar and break something - and that's a flip it's got to achieve without taking too big of a hit and getting knocked out - I can't see it winning. Combatwombat555 (talk) 21:50, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
Winner: Fluffy (5-4)

Black Hole (5) vs Bigger Brother (3)

Black Hole	Bigger Brother
Votes for Black Hole	Votes for Bigger Brother Bigger Brother, just like Firestorm in a way, has a tendency to lose to some of the great machines, but can expertly defeat the greatest. Indeed, I think it is the perfect to defeat Black Hole. Not only is it durable, but I am confident it can overturn Black Hole straight away, reducing the effectiveness of the discs. Then, with the usage of its wedge, it can control the German spinner's movements, just like Philipper 2 did. In the end, I expect a pitting to occur. Bigger Brother is still vulnerable for the rest of the tournament, though. Because it lost to Bulldog Breed, it also loses the path the third seed would usually take en-route to the Grand Final. Something to consider later on, perhaps. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 08:05, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Germany is eliminated with two ninth place finishes. TOAST 09:39, 30 September 2020 (UTC) Not much to say, I'm sure of a OOtA.Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 09:45, 30 September 2020 (UTC) One flip to invert the spinner and leave it useless. Though Bigger Brother might stand a chance against a working spinner too. Hogwild94 (talk) 17:42, 30 September 2020 (UTC) I was debating placing a vote for Black Hole, but waited while I tried to articulate my reasoning (also kinda hoping someone else would place a vote I could bounce off of), but I can't really argue against Bigger Brother getting a flip in on the compact Black Hole, and flipper-grip pushing it into the pit. Jimlaad43(talk) 09:54, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Seems pretty simple to me. CrashBash (talk) 16:22, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Space does have a point, Bigger Brother now has to battle the fourth seed path winner (I think). I tried to make a case for Black Hole, as I do think it can win it maybe 3 times out of 10, but that isn't enough to sway me unfortunately. Bigger Brother with the clamp and pit. Adster1005 16:38, 1 October 2020 (UTC) Does it? Would be interesting to find out which paths each machine will travel to. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 12:43, 2 October 2020 (UTC) Razer keeps it first seed path. Bigger Brother has lost it's 3rd spot run, Black Hole is out. Behemoth takes the seventh seed run. Dantomkia, Panzer Mk4, FireStorm IV and Tricerabot 3.0 are yet to go. At the moment - Razer (first seed path) will battle the eighth vs twelfth seed path. Bulldog Breed or Fluffy (third seed path) will battle the sixth vs tenth seed path. Bigger Brother (fifth seed path - this one) will battle the fourth vs sixteenth seed path. Behemoth (seventh seed path) will battle the second vs fourteenth seed path. In hindsight, I made a mistake as the two middle spots should have been switched in both sets of semi-finals. Oh well, too late now. In regards to above, I believe that's how it stands, if I've done it right. Adster1005 19:35, 2 October 2020 (UTC) This is a shame, I wanted to see Black Hole in the grand final, but we know that flippers (particularly ones with sensible enough drivers to keep it upside-down) are something of a weakness. GERMANY ELIMINATED - 2 COUNTRIES REMAINING Combatwombat555 (talk) 21:53, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
Winner: Bigger Brother (8-0)