Forum:Ragnabot 2 Sweepstake

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Returning to Ragnabot is the famous Sweepstake! Users who sign up will be assigned a number of robots which they will then "support" throughout the Quarter-Finals, all the way to the final.

There are two awards. Firstly, the user who draws the winner, is awarded the Ragnabot Sweepstake title.
Secondly, the user who's robots score the most points is awarded the Ragnabot points title.

A robot scores a point for each battle that they win from Round 1 of the Quarter-Finals onwards.

Sign-Up

With around a week to go before the Quarter-Finals start, please place your name here if you wish to take part in the sweepstake.

1. Jimlaad43(talk) 14:46, February 12, 2017 (UTC)
2. VulcansHowl 14:47, February 12, 2017 (UTC)
3. Combatwombat555 (talk) 14:48, February 12, 2017 (UTC)
4. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 14:55, February 12, 2017 (UTC)
5. TOAST 14:58, February 12, 2017 (UTC)
6. Raz3r(talk) 15:08, February 12, 2017 (UTC)
7. CaliforniaKingsnake (talk) 15:35, February 12, 2017 (UTC)
8. Hogwild94 (talk) 19:34, February 12, 2017 (UTC)
9. Nweston8 (talk) 19:56, February 12, 2017 (UTC)
10. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 20:22, February 12, 2017 (UTC)
11. Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 20:29, February 12, 2017 (UTC)
12. Gutripper^Speak 20:55, February 12, 2017 (UTC)
13. CrashBash (talk) 21:06, February 12, 2017 (UTC)
14. RA2; aka Resetti's Replicas. (My Talk) 21:08, February 12, 2017 (UTC)
15. Hell yeah! --Demon Of Tomorrow 21:30, February 12, 2017 (UTC)
16. Drop Zone mk2 (talk) 22:02, February 12, 2017 (UTC)
17. --Voyanuitoa (talk) 00:01, February 13, 2017 (UTC)
18. RelicRaider (talk) 00:06, February 13, 2017 (UTC)
19. Sam (BAZINGA) 01:07, February 13, 2017 (UTC)
20. --Rammingspeed (talk) 16:45, February 13, 2017 (UTC)
21. StalwartUK 14:42, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

Allocation comments

I'm going to make this argument again and if I get harassed, I don't really care because it needs to remain the priority. The Arena is about rewarding mainspace edits, and I'm of the opinion that when we are allocating some users 3 robots and some users 4, the users to get four should be the users with high mainspace edit counts. In my honest opinion, there are four clear mainspace edits stand outs - Toast, myself, Nweston and Vulcans. Depending on the final number of participants we may have four or five end up with four robots, in which case I'm happy to put the work into determining who the fifth will be. The purpose of the Arena needs to be reflected and this is a very small but fair way to reward certain users, particularly Vulcans and Nick who aren't admins and never ask much reward. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 01:37, February 13, 2017 (UTC)

I'm going to lean towards users who vote in the tournament more often. We have 19 user signed up, and we have never had 19 votes in a battle, in fact, Storm 2 vs Firestorm is the first battle to go above 15 users. We regularly have about 12-14 votes, so those users will be prioritised. Jimlaad43(talk) 01:43, February 13, 2017 (UTC)

Voting in the Arena is already a reward. We don't reward users for using their reward. Besides, voting more often means little more than coming up with funny things to say in one sided matches. It also biases against users like Vulcans who started voting later than others. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 01:48, February 13, 2017 (UTC)

I mean Vulcans, Nick and I meet both conditions anyway, we're the wiki's biggest contributors with TG, and we also vote on every battle, so the outcome stays pretty much the same - even though TG doesn't vote on every fight, he's clearly still very active with it and makes predictions for each heat, so that four works fine from either perspective. Bring in Jimlaad as a fifth guy if necessary as thanks for hosting the tournament, and then everybody's happy, right? TOAST 01:59, February 13, 2017 (UTC)

I'm happy with that outcome. I want to make clear I'm not making a big fuss because I want an extra robot, I'm making a fuss because I think rewarding mainspace edits is the purpose of the Arena and I want to make sure it isn't forgotten. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 02:02, February 13, 2017 (UTC)

As it stands, there would be 7 users with 4 robots. I never wanted it to be anything to do with commitment or edits or rewards or anything, it was supposed to be a random draw, as the whole tournament has been. If people really want me to draw them by contribution, I think that then becomes unfair on those who get 3 robots. We are all equal (as you've quoted before TG), so why alienate people who think they've contributed a lot, maybe invisibly, and then get annoyed.So I am going to just draw it randomly, calling out people for doing more or less than others is not that nice really, so it's a random draw. I do however still need to work out how 4 and 3 robot users can be equalled out for the points though. Jimlaad43(talk) 16:32, February 13, 2017 (UTC)

TL;DR - Everyone has the same chance of getting 3 or 4 robots. Jimlaad43(talk) 16:32, February 13, 2017 (UTC)

The easiest way to equal out the points would be to do 'Average number of points per robot' for each person in the sweepstake. For someone with four robots their total points are divided by four, for someone with three robots their total points would be divided by three. For example if User 1 scored 8 points with four robots, they would have an average score of 2, but if User 2 scores 7 points with three robots, they would win with a higher average of 2.33--Voyanuitoa (talk) 16:46, February 13, 2017 (UTC)

The Arena is slowly moving away from the Wiki to the point where it might as well be its own site. i can't force you to see that, but I have to say that potential future admins would not have to be told the importance of rewarding our mainspace users. Do what you want, I can't stop you. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 20:41, February 13, 2017 (UTC)

TG, can you please stop being against everything the wiki has become. I'm getting really sick of it, how all of the things that have been on the wiki for the 4 years I've been here are being questioned and shouted down by one person. Please try to accept that the wiki has changed in your absence and we might get on better. Jimlaad43(talk) 22:19, February 13, 2017 (UTC)

Jim, how about you stop complaining about how we old users want to continue to recognise the mainspace? This isn't TG complaining about things changing, this is you all missing the point and then grumbling that you won't be rewarded for not editing if we had our way, and therefore refusing to go along with it. Gutripper^Speak 09:56, February 14, 2017 (UTC)

Just throwing this out here....I'm also an old user, I also want to recognise the mainspace, but I'd rather we frankly be treated as equals. We're all guaranteed three robots each, and Voyanuitoa has already suggested a compromise that's actually pretty workable. CrashBash (talk) 10:04, February 14, 2017 (UTC)

At what point have I ever said the mainspace is not worth it? Where? I've done my part in the past, and now Uni work has actually caught up on me, meaning Ragnabot is all I have time for at the moment (contrary to what I claimed in my RfA, you guys were right there). This is supposed to be a fun sweepstake for Ragnabot, and it's being dragged out into another argument over nothing... Jimlaad43(talk) 10:27, February 14, 2017 (UTC)

Actually, this could've been a non-argument if you'd said "oh yeah, that's a nice gesture, let's do that, it doesn't make much difference" but you insist on digging your heels in over bringing the Arena back to its intended purpose. This isn't about the idea anymore, this is about you being the one to complain, not TG. As for you Crash, I've literally never seen you suggest that rewarding mainspace users is your prerogative. Gutripper^Speak 10:34, February 14, 2017 (UTC)

Voting in the arena is a reward for mainspace users enough as is. If the additional robots are given at random, there's really nothing to complain about. It's a 1/5 chance of getting extra. CrashBash (talk) 10:39, February 14, 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, it is a nice idea, but I just simply don't want to do it. As I said, I originally wanted to do it at random, or maybe lean towards those who had contributed to the tournament more, but it's been blasted into a call out competition into who has done more for the wiki than others at the present time. I don't see Crash or RA2 being nominated to get extra robots despite the fact that an awful lot of the wiki has been written or formed by them. This is getting totally unnecessary and seems to be getting hypocritical against previous discussions we've had about equality and other things. Jimlaad43(talk) 11:00, February 14, 2017 (UTC)

Okay let's stop the conversation here. I'm disappointed in the outcome, but further discussion serves no purpose. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 11:04, February 14, 2017 (UTC)

Then I have a proposition. To keep it simple, you just give the four extra robots to the judges/commentator - that'd be you, me, Toast and CW. I know it's not random, but it effectively covers both your and TG's "wants". And besides, we still have another heat - effectively another week - to sort stuff out. CrashBash (talk) 12:03, February 14, 2017 (UTC)

No the judges already have power to decide battles, they don't need extra robots. I don't see how that in any way fits my wants. I wanted Nick and Vulcans to get extra, but if we're not going to reward users, then let's just go back to random allocation. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 12:16, February 14, 2017 (UTC)

First of all, it was just a suggestion, no need to be so snappy. More to the point, we ARE rewarding users, no matter who gets the extra robots. I don't understand your problem. CrashBash (talk) 13:30, February 14, 2017 (UTC)

After doing a quick calculation, 16 x 4 Quarter-Finalists (64), divided by 20 users (including myself), should equal 3.2 robots for every user at the moment. VulcansHowl 22:54, February 13, 2017 (UTC)

That'd mean each person is guaranteed three robots each, whilst the other four can be randomly assigned. CrashBash (talk) 23:01, February 13, 2017 (UTC)

Seeing as I have probably the least contributions to my name of anyone here, I'd like only 3 robots please. RelicRaider (talk) 16:23, February 14, 2017 (UTC)

Final Decision

The draw will be done at random, including the number of robots per user. I might even try to stream the draw live on Twitch for funzies. Jimlaad43(talk) 13:44, February 14, 2017 (UTC)

You have 2 more days to sign up if you aren't already. It'll be done on Wednesday afternoon/evening, and I will try to livestream it, or at least upload a video of the draw. Jimlaad43(talk) 11:08, February 20, 2017 (UTC)

Sounds good. Your night is my morning hopefully I can watch over breakfast. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 11:55, February 20, 2017 (UTC)

How far ahead of GMT are you, and what time would you be getting up, so I can choose a good time. Jimlaad43(talk) 16:33, February 20, 2017 (UTC)

What's your Twitch? So I can catch the draw. CaliforniaKingsnake (talk) 16:43, February 20, 2017 (UTC)

Jimlaad43 Jimlaad43(talk) 16:58, February 20, 2017 (UTC)

Great idea, I should be available, looking forward to it. I predict that I'll draw Anarchy, X-Terminator, and V3/Revolution 3. If I get a fourth robot, then the gods will be on my side, and Pressure will join my squad. TOAST 17:03, February 20, 2017 (UTC)

Since Toast's posted the robots he most likely wants, then I think it's fair I do the same. Pulsar, St Agro and Sabretooth. If I so happen to get a fourth robot (unlikely but still), then may the gods be on my side to gift me Carbide. CaliforniaKingsnake (talk) 09:09, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

There's a difference between what I want and what I think I'm going to get! Heavens above I wouldn't want Revolution 3 if that made a late comeback, and X-Terminator is something I had last time. TOAST 10:04, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

I'll probably get something like to have Infernal Contraption, Ruf Ruf Dougal and OverKill, the three worse of the bunch. It would be funny to see two of them fighting one another.Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 09:16, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

Aren't you the one who's supposed to stick up for Infernal Contraption? It's better than Corkscrew Two and 3 Stegs! TOAST 10:04, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

I'm GMT plus 11. Your 830pm is my 730am which suits perfectly if possible. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 19:46, February 20, 2017 (UTC)

And to answer Toast, Im predicting getting Storm 2, 3 Stegs to Heaven and Kan opener and Dominator 2 as an optional fourth. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 20:04, February 20, 2017 (UTC)

The interesting thing is, that if we do go with my idea of averaging points, it may actually be preferable to only have three robots, if the fourth gets knocked out in the first round of the quarter finals, it could tank your chances. --Voyanuitoa (talk) 20:12, February 20, 2017 (UTC)

Wednesday 22nd at 8:15GMT it is then. I will write and post the first round of the quarter-finals straight after I post the results of the Sweepstake draw on this page. Jimlaad43(talk) 20:29, February 20, 2017 (UTC)

I hope I'm not too late for this. If there are any robots left to go around I wouldn't mind a place. StalwartUK 14:45, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

Absolutely fine, it's great to see you involved again! TOAST 14:48, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

Last-minute suggestion

So with StalwartUK signing up for the sweepstake, we now have 21 participants. I've done the maths, and if we gave a fourth robot to some-but-not-all participants as planned, a whopping ONE person would get a fourth robot, while everyone else gets three. I suggest that rather than messing about with averages, we just put the sixty-fourth robot back in the pot, ignore it, and let everybody else enter with three. If that single robot happens to win the whole thing, we'd still have a champion through the winner of the points total. TOAST 14:53, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

I'm with Toast on this one. Raz3r(talk) 14:55, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

This seems fine with me (provided there aren't anymore last minute entries)--Voyanuitoa (talk) 15:19, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

Draw

Today on Jimlaad's Twitch at 8:15pm GMT!

My friend GoldenFox may be streaming today but that won't stop me from attending the draw. I can always have both up. CaliforniaKingsnake (talk) 12:40, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

Believe me, we know who GoldenFox is ;) TOAST 14:41, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

Oh you do? Well he and ToonKritic are friends of mine. CaliforniaKingsnake (talk) 14:46, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

GoldenFox was a voter in the original Ragnabot tournament, among a few other forum competitions. I would imagine he retired from it because he kept stirring up arguments, that might be something to ask him about. Not familiar with ToonKritic though. TOAST 14:48, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

Fellow reviewer, does a lot of livestreams on Twitch. Also pretty cool dude, and the robot I built for him is into the Semi-finals of my own Robot Wars series CaliforniaKingsnake (talk) 14:56, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

Hockey from 7:30 - 9:30pm. RIP. At least I can still watch the twitch draw after its finished, or I could be lazy and just read the list on wiki afterwards. Raz3r(talk) 14:17, February 22, 2017 (UTC)

Draw Format

The draw will happen in three parts.

1. All signed up users will be drawn into an order.
2. Users will then be assigned a number of robots through another random draw.
3. The robots will then be drawn.

The stream will start around 8:05-8:10, and the draw will start at 8:15. Jimlaad43(talk) 12:29, February 22, 2017 (UTC)