Votes for Drillzilla
- In a battle of pushing robots, go for the one with the weight, power and grip advantage, and for the one which has shown pushing prowess before. Cherub's forks will only delay the inevitable if it manages to pick Drillzilla up for a few seconds. I can't see Cherub ever pushing Drillzilla back if it somehow manages to lift it up to get the shufflers off the ground. It won't be able to keep Drillzilla balanced on the forks long enough to get anywhere meaningful, meaning Drillzilla can fall back off and just shove Cherub into the pit. Jimlaad43(talk) 22:45, December 30, 2019 (UTC)
- Cherub to get bulldozed all over the place by the vibrating brick. Hogwild94 (talk) 22:55, December 30, 2019 (UTC)
- Unless Cherub can perfectly snag Drillzilla's banks, its run ends here unfortunately. I need to really think about the other two. CrashBash (talk) 23:25, December 30, 2019 (UTC)
- Overall, Cherub needs perfect attacks on the banks, and I think it's range just isn't great enough here to achieve that. Drillzilla to push Cherub around the arena relentlessly. Adster1005 23:35, December 30, 2019 (UTC)
- Four really tough fights here. This is is difficult because it can realistically go either way, Cherub can get its forks in to disrupt Drillzilla and Drillzilla was slow at turning on some occasions but what really sways this for me is the shape of all things. Looking at Drillzilla's front seems to determine that it can "clasp" around Cherub and ram them around , but I also think if it gets behind Cherub where the wheels are more vulnerable then the ramming attacks will seem more aggressive and damaging. A close Judges Decision. Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 09:06, December 31, 2019 (UTC)
- I'm not convinced by the argument regarding the forks. I'd like to look in greater detail at the Tornado vs Cherub fights that have been touted a lot. I've found three such fights online: two melees and a Head-to-Head fight. In one of their melees it was Turbulence who overturned tornado and later stranded it on the side wall, nothing that Cherub did caused tornado to lose. In the other melee, Tornado won the judges' decision. From my own observations, Cherub did indeed get a few good individual attacks, and ONCE (across three fights) came very close to overturning it once it shoved Tornado into the vertical wall. Yet it still wasn't able to, and I think Tornado still had a greater, or at least very similar, volume of successful attacks on Cherub than vice versa, even when they came together head-on, especially in their head-to-head clash. The walls are more sloped in the reboot arena, not to mention Drillzilla is lower, heavier and wider than Tornado, so I think an overturn is impossible on Drillzilla unless it gets fed to something like Matilda. Even firestorm 3 wasn't able to breach Drillzilla enough to get close to a flip from the front or the sides. Another thing to point out is that the driver of Cherub in those Tornado fights was not Toby, who is driving it in this case. Toby isn't a bad driver, but I think robots like Drillzilla and Tornado are far more likely to be able to outmanoeuvre him than if Mark were at the controls. Behemoth in its crusher form was able to shove Cherub around several times from the side, I just can't see Cherub not getting controlled by the heavier, better driven robot that is Drillzilla. Drillzilla was even able to get round the back of Firestorm 3 a couple of times in the Second World Championship when it was just the two of them left in the battle, so I'm sure it will be able to do the same to Cherub. Drillzilla to take the judges' decision on aggression and control. Raz3r(talk) 17:17, December 31, 2019 (UTC)
- I might've given Cherub the edge on front ground clearance, but seeing how well zilla dealt with the far nippier Firestorm by charging it from behind, even when they were the only two still running, I'll give it to the yank. Datovidny (talk) 17:57, December 31, 2019 (UTC)
- I think DrillZilla is too heavy for Cherub to properly lift, and Cherub is going to have to work harder to get it up the wedge than Razer did to properly immobilize it. Badnik96 (talk) 09:33, January 1, 2020 (UTC)
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Votes for Cherub
- Now here is the thing: I think Tornado would edge out Drillzilla in a pushing battle. It seems to have the greater raw pace thanks to having wheels, while also containing a low ground clearance scoop that can wedge underneath its opponent. Why is this important? Because based on analysing a fight or two between Tornado and Cherub, it appears the latter had the measure of its foe, not only holding up the Series 6 champion, but also wedging underneath and controlling the red and black robot for a decent amount of time. Drillzilla's main weakness is its lack of wedge; Cherub should be more than capable of getting underneath and shoving its foe around. On another note, does anyone know how much weight Cherub's forks can actually lift? Even if they cannot lift the full 160kg, they should still do their bit in making Drillzilla somewhat unbalanced, making it easier for Cherub to push its opponent. Ultimately, no matter what some critics of Cherub claim, the white machine is no pushover, and I think it will prove it here, holding up and controlling the shufflebot for long periods of time, winning a Judges' decision on aggression and control. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 23:26, December 30, 2019 (UTC)
- I think Drillzilla gets a little too much credit for pushing. It was certainly good, but it's not the best pusher in Robot Wars history. It was actually quite handily matched by Manta in their fight, and while Da Claw from Robotica was a different weight class, that was quite easily overpowered. Additionally, wedging the robot even slightly off the floor negated its traction entirely, hence the easy win from Razer. Cherub's wedge shape and lifting forks will make it all too easy to lever Drillzilla off the ground and then control the pushing match quite easily. Drillzilla can't start any sort of push from the front, so it would be forced to somehow catch Cherub side-on, which Toby Colliass simply won't allow. After enough times beating Tornado on the live circuit, Drillzilla will be child's play. And of course, if I'm allowed to use the arena floor correctly instead of pretending there's some wooden spotlight under Drillzilla at all times, then Cherub can just slide the vibrating brick around like a bar of soap. TOAST 23:35, December 30, 2019 (UTC)
- I really think people are choosing to ignore the fact that Drillzilla couldn't outpush Manta when they were both going at it, so allow me to chuck in another point which might help people. Did you know that simply by being wedged off the floor a little, Drillzilla was charged across the arena by Conquering Clown? Whether you rate Cherub's forks is kinda irrelevant - either the forks lift Drillzilla up a bit and contribute to the pushing, or the lifters don't help and Cherub remains an effective wedge on its own. Certainly as effective as Conquering Clown, to say the least. TOAST 18:32, December 31, 2019 (UTC)
- Actually, no, most of us for not "choosing to ignore the fact that Drillzilla couldn't outpush Manta", or that Drillzilla could be easily beached on a wedge. Read the votes and you'll see that many of them are based on the fact that Drillzilla was able to outflank and get around Firestorm of all machines, even when the two were the only robots left in their fight. There's a difference. CrashBash (talk) 06:24, January 1, 2020 (UTC)
- Yeah, Drillzilla's pushing often gets too much credit, and Cherub's forks get dismissed too easily when they're very handy and nifty - especially in a fight against a machine which long flat angles all around. I fancy Cherub to lift Drillzilla up at some point quite handily. And with Drillzilla's lack of invertibility it can even be partially lifted up, followed by Cherub moving forward while it's off the floor, and complete Drillzilla's complete fall over. I trust Cherub here. NJGW (talk) 23:42, December 30, 2019 (UTC)
- How are those tiny forks supposed to turn a really side robot over? You're saying a 200kg pusher is getting too much credit, but then make this overestimation of tiny forks? The forks are lifters, not flippers and there is no way it can overturn a robot just by pushing it. How have you come to that conclusion? Jimlaad43(talk) 23:55, December 30, 2019 (UTC)
- Lifters can prise a robot off the floor and into a position for a push to complete a topple. Panic Attack, for example, so often lifted a machine up, then bumped it fully over with a drive once the opponent was at a vulnerable height. NJGW (talk) 00:04, December 31, 2019 (UTC)
- Panic Attack's lifters were much longer, and most of those topples were on much shorter machines. Drillzilla is much wider than the full height Cherub can lift its lifters, which is the problem here. It's like trying to overturn a box of chocolates with the short side of an allan key, it just won't work. All it'll do is slide under (bounce off the shufflers anyway) and either land on top and drive off or just fall off the tiny prongs anyway. The physics of the dimensions of the whole situation have been ignored. Jimlaad43(talk) 00:24, December 31, 2019 (UTC)
- No surprises here, I'm going with the 'bot that has been constantly looked down upon throughout this entire tournament. I don't get it, Cherub isn't a wedge that's completely useless and incapable of doing anything. If anything, Drillzilla is the one in major trouble in this fight. Cherub's pushing power is probably more than enough to actually overwhelm Drillzilla now, helped especially by the forks that it can use to lift its opponent up and prevent them from pushing well. --TheyCallMeDoot (*doot doot*) 01:02, December 31, 2019 (UTC)
- In the Second World Championship final, Drillzilla showed itself to be completely outmatched by a slower machine with a wedge and excellent driving skills - Razer. Now, it’s not to suggest that Cherub is quite in the same league as Extreme 1 Razer in terms of armament, but it has a slightly higher top speed, an effective wedge and a skilled driver, all of which should be enough for it to get underneath and control Drillzilla towards the CPZs and hazards. The forks should be able to hook the shuffling mechanisms occasionally, but like Razer’s beak I don’t think they’ll play a massive part here. All Cherub needs to do is get under the front and sides, and steer Drillzilla into danger for a well-earned Judges’ decision. VulcansHowl 13:20, December 31, 2019 (UTC)
- The moment Cherub gets Drillzilla's front off the floor, the American shuffler is in trouble - see their battle with Razer for reference of how easily Drillzilla can be dominated when it rides up a wedge and it can't make contact with the floor. If Manta can go toe-to-toe with Drillzilla in a pushing match, then I don't feel Cherub achieving the same feat at minimum is an impossible task. SFCJack (talk) 17:44, December 31, 2019 (UTC)
- Cherub to get under Drillzilla and pit it, easily with the much larger pit series 8-10 had. Sam (BAZINGA) 01:25, January 1, 2020 (UTC)
- I'm liking these arguments more; provided that Cherub can keep the wedge pointed at Drillzilla (which isn't necessarily an easy task, but Toby managed to avoid exposing the rear to Cherub's other opponents, so I have faith) it should be able to break its traction and get in some long pushes across the arena. I agree that Cherub won't overturn Drillzilla, but it doesn't need to do so to win this. Combatwombat555 (talk) 12:01, January 1, 2020 (UTC)
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