Talk: Qualifiers

Known Qualifiers

Is it worth noting which qualifiers we know on this page? Toon Ganondorf (t c) 22:53, February 21, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I wasn't sure, so I just picked out a couple of examples. However, we could just list the robots that did fail to qualify for each series, I have already been making lists for that. Datovidny (talk) 15:10, February 22, 2012 (UTC)

Mainspace the list of qualifiers

For a long time now, if we discovered a new qualifier, we would add it to Forum:Qualifiers. This bugs me a little, as I feel a list of qualifiers is worthy of being in the mainspace. Obviously though, it wouldn't be presentable in its current state. I've made a userpage here to show what the page could look like, using an alphabetised table of all known qualifiers in Series 7. "List of known qualifiers" seems like a suitable title to me. Does anybody else agree? ToastUltimatum 00:50, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

Sure, I suppose so. How does the alphabetization work? Does, say Aggrobot vs Zorro go at the top, or the bottom? RA2; aka Resetti's Replicas. (My Talk) 01:01, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

I've alphabetised the robots in each individual battle, so a robot beginning with A comes first. Then I've ordered the battles based on the name of the first robot in the battle. In my example, 8645T 2 vs. Mighty Mouse vs. TX-108 comes first, and Shredder Evolution vs. Tsunami comes last. ToastUltimatum 01:08, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

Toast, the unknown robot in TAN's, Metalis' and I bot One Beta qualifier was Skorpizoid. Sam (BAZINGA) 10:58, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

Wording Change

This mostly applies to the Series Record tables, but also some article introductions as well. I think we should introduce a separate term, distinguished from 'failed to qualify'. The latter term is appropriate for robots which competed at the qualifier battles and lost, or didn't impress the producers enough (so Series 4-7), but robots like Major Tom in Series 3 and all of the 2016-17 rejects can't really be blamed for "failing to qualify". They did everything in their power to try and enter the show, but they simply weren't selected.

I've seen some roboteers complain about the harshness of the term 'failed to qualify', so I think we need to introduce two separate terms. 'Failed to qualify' can refer to robots that weren't chosen to compete across Series 4-7, while 'not selected' can categorise robots that didn't make it into Series 2-3, 2016-17. Thoughts? ToastUltimatum 20:48, November 27, 2016 (UTC)

I would support the introduction of a second term. 'Failed to qualify' seems especially nonsensical to apply to robots rejected from 2016-2017, given that no qualifiers/auditions took place to begin with, and 'Not selected' would be more appropriate given the selection process used for those series. I still agree with keeping 'Failed to qualify' for robots that did attend qualifiers and lost/didn't impress the producers enough, but what should we use to refer to robots that earned discretionary places but turned them down due to damage, such as Cayenne and Hannibal (UK) in the Series 7 qualifiers? VulcansHowl (talk) 21:16, November 27, 2016 (UTC)

I personally don't feel it is a necessity to change the wording, but I completely understand the want to separate the two and would support a change if people want it. Personally, 'not selected' feels a little too informal, so we could simply change it to 'Did not qualify' to slightly change the perceive harshness behind the word 'failed'. Nweston8 (talk) 21:22, November 27, 2016 (UTC)

Failed to qualify is still applicable for Hannibal and Cayenne for two reasons. One, we don't know if they were actually offered discretionary places, the possibility was simply mentioned. Two, if they were given places, they still 'failed' to prepare on time. Not selected was a term suggested by a roboteer, and I prefer it over Did not qualify, as it's more easily distinguished. If noone opposes this change, I'll get to work with the changeover. ToastUltimatum 22:04, November 27, 2016 (UTC)

Ticket for the Series 5 qualifier

This recently came up for sale on eBay. I'm not going to bother buying it, but I thought it was interesting to see given the rarity of it, and thought I should post it on the wiki, even if i'm not certain it's worth including in the mainspace. Drop Zone mk2 (talk) 19:57, April 1, 2017 (UTC)

Team Vader

Just interested in seeing what others think, but since Vader and IG-88 were entered separately (yes, they came from the same team, but they weren't entered by the same person), should we have them listed on the page? Adster1005 13:22, May 22, 2020 (UTC)

Series 5 Welsh Qualifiers

Earlier today, a YouTube user called Taped it! uploaded footage from two BBC Wales Today bulletins covering the Welsh stage of the Series 5 live tour. These clips present the arena setup and aesthetic in the best possible way while also revealing a few interesting things from the qualifiers themselves. These include:

• Footage of the updated Evil Weevil with pneumatic claw, revealing that it fought two head-to-heads as a likely qualification attempt (losing one against Panic Attack).
• More exhibition battles between Sir Killalot and a rebuilt Teddybot, by this stage a wedge-shaped robot armed with twin axes and a fragile outer body.
• Refbot appearing in the arena in several shots, suggesting that he was used on the Welsh leg at least.
• In the second report, Craig Charles revealing his favourite House Robot to be Sir Killalot, as well as sweet spots for the holy trifecta of All-Stars (Razer, Hypno-Disc, Chaos 2).
• An unidentified red and yellow wedge-shaped robot armed with a front lifting tusk and rear cone-shaped bludgeoner. Appears in two separate clips, including one from a qualifier where it puts up a very strong fight against Evil Weevil.
• An interim version of Mega Morg (Mini Morg?) with a silver paint scheme and without the front lifter.
• Brief segments with Chris Reynolds, confirming that Shunt, Dead Metal and Matilda were in attendance alongside Sir Killalot.

As far as I know, this is the first time I've ever seen any official footage from the qualifiers in any capacity. The lighting in particular makes for a more atmospheric show than the main Series 5 and I wish they had kept it as it was for the televised series. Makes you think whether the other legs were similarly filmed for PR purposes, or even as part of a similar evaluation process as what we learnt happened with the Extreme 2 New Blood. VulcansHowl 20:45, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Great find VulcansHowl! This is really awesome to find video footage of the qualifiers, it begs the question now if there is anymore footage out there, whether it be aired on TV like this one or if it was filmed privately. We know cameras were set up at the Series 4 qualifiers because of the numerous pictures in the magazines. Cool to see that they rebuilt Teddybot and did another demo fight with Sir Killalot, that'll be one for its page. Awesome stuff! RobotManiac (talk) 21:37, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Awesome stuff indeed! A few things, one, the unpainted Mini Morg appears in the Robot Wars Ultimate Guide, interesting to notice it here. The unknown wedge robot, I suspect could be Hornet? Either that or we listen closely to commentary and see what they say, it sounds like they say something along the lines of: "- got Evil Weevil!" But the news reporter speaks over it so it's hard to catch. Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 07:57, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Series 4 Qualifier Form

Hot on the heels of my recent find concerning international build rules circa 2002, I present to everyone the archived PDF application form for the Series 4 Qualifiers, accessible from the Wayback Machine. This confirms the provisional auditioning dates as being 24th July-August 12th 2000, putting these qualifiers squarely in between filming for American Robot Wars 2000 (July 22nd-23rd) and the main UK series (14th August-1st September).

There are a number of other interesting details I've noticed while reading through this document, including:

• The reference to the qualifiers as the "First Round Qualifying Tournament"; reference is given in the 'Rules of Engagement' page to 'Qualifying Rounds' which suggest that the plan might have been to form a mini-competition around these.
• The very next sentence alludes to the prospect of these qualifiers being filmed, which should help answer RobotManiac's query in the previous topic thread:

"'This tournament will not form part of the television competition but some battles may be televised."

— Extract from page 1

• The 'Rules of Engagement' section suggests that the 'Qualifying Rounds' were to take place in an 'unobstructed arena', i.e. without hazards or House Robots as per the Series 6-7 qualifiers. Obviously, this would be reversed for the finalised 'Robot Mayhem' event where they would be used more or less the same as in the televised fights.
• Random draws being made for qualifier match-ups.
• A clear, concise 80kg weight limit for standard heavyweights, further complicating the issues Team Tornado raised during their auditioning process.

Another fascinating relic unearthed from the Internet Archive. Seems like there were plans to show parts of the Series 4 qualifiers in some capacity - either for news items or perhaps even as replacement stock footage to be used in the main series. VulcansHowl 23:35, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Series 2 Audition Footage - King Buxton Video Diaries

While in the process of completing the write-up for Episode 9 of Robot Wars Revealed, there was something about the fourth video diary for King Buxton which struck me as both curious and revealing. The final clip in particular appeared to show the pre-Series 2 version being tested against barrels and a metal ball, in an environment that looked strikingly similar to that of the actual Pits and test area complex from the main series.

Now, I wasn't sure whether this was from a private test (the diary was captioned as being filmed three days before Series 2 proper was to start) or possibly from the series auditions which might help explain why the chassis holes and armour hadn't been implemented at that stage. Then, I found out that back in 2018, Team B themselves had previously shared the full, uncut video diaries that they had sent to Mentorn concerning the construction of King Buxton (links to both parts available here and here).

Around 16 minutes into the second part, everything made sense. Team B had included footage taken from their appearance at the Series 2 auditions. Aside from King Buxton being tested, I also found the following from this set of clips:

• Other recognisable robots in attendance including G.B.H., Killertron and Robo Doc in varying states of completion.
• A couple of unidentified robots; including a partially-finished one with a rectangular wooden baseplate, and another red, black/grey and green trapezoid-shaped one with what I'm presuming was a space for a large overhead weapon of some kind.
• Obstacles in the test area including barrels, a metal ball, the see-saw ramp and Eubank the Mouse.
• The presence of Series 1-2 Judge Eric Dickinson, who is seen at one point overseeing King Buxton's drive tests.
• Official camera crews being present when Mike Franklin puts Robo Doc through its paces. This suggests to me that additional segments were being filmed for possible use in the main series or Robot Wars Revealed.

So yes, King Buxton's video diary basically confirmed that Robot Wars Revealed also included footage from the Series 2 auditions in some form. In this case, it wasn't official footage like in the BBC Wales Today reports, but it's still a rare look at how informal and laid back this part of the qualification process was back in the show's very early days. VulcansHowl 13:28, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Series 4 House Robot Demos

Compare the lighting here to that from the first two War of Independence battles, or the Robot Mayhem magazine photos. Does anyone else think that this could be one of the House Robot demos that took place during the Series 4 qualifiers?

Not the best angle of Sgt. Bash, I'll admit, but look at the lighting for the arena floor and CPZ

Given what we know about official filming arrangements for the Series 4-6 qualifiers, does anyone else think that some of the House Robot demos from the beginning of Series 4, Heat A might have actually been those from the Robot Mayhem event?

Keep in mind that the magazine article mentions that every House Robot from this series performed these throughout the event, and the arena lighting for the Matilda and Sgt. Bash clips in particular is drastically different to that used in the main series. In fact, I'd go as far as say that the light patterns, plus the generally dark and mysterious ambience - where only the robots and marked hazards/objects (e.g. CPZs) are properly illuminated - are very similar to those present in photos published within the magazine. VulcansHowl 16:20, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Looking at that Matilda image, I noticed the round vent has no red outline, which the Series 4 arena had. With the Sgt Bash image, there seems to be objects like a car door and barrel in the background hidden by shadow. I'd say overall it's likely that the qualifiers and House Robot introductions were done at the same time. Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 17:23, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Plus, if you pause when Sgt. Bash first spouts flames, you can see what appears to be a small object resembling a hollowed-out ball to the left of the screen. Could that have been something he was meant to torch during his live demo? VulcansHowl 17:29, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Series 4 8645T Photo

If you look closely to the right of this photo of 8645T from Robot Mayhem, you can see a TV monitor showing what appears to be a qualifier battle or demonstration taking place in the arena. More evidence to suggest that Robot Mayhem was potentially filmed live? VulcansHowl 18:57, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Watford Observer article - Robot Mayhem

While scouting for more information to add to my 2001 Live Events article in progress, I found this online article from the Watford Observer dated 28th July 2000, which sheds more light on some of the happenings from the Robot Mayhem event.

The article states that:

• Indefatigable had a supposedly torrid time against a robot called The Mole, being 'left mangled and crumpled in a heap' even before its meeting with Chaos 2.
• The Mole - which I initially pictured in my mind as a Thunderbirds homage - had 'spiky teeth and a circular saw' as weapons, and was suggested to take part in a second qualifier.
• Arena announcements went something like this: "'Ten seconds to activation. . .5, 4, 3, 2, 1...'"
• ...but no 'Activate', apparently. Battle starts were marked by a 'siren' and jets of flame from the side wall flamethrowers.
• Hard Cheese fought a third qualifier against a previously-undocumented machine called Spike the Impaler, armed with a 'mechanical claw' and 'axe'. Despite taking damage, Hard Cheese pushed Spike the Impaler against a side wall flamethrower, before turning it over and pitting it.
• Andy Collins appeared to be dressed in a costume not too dissimilar to a Matrix character; it was suggested that, at the audience's demand, he could 'order' the pit to descend during battles.
• Series 3 competitor Excalibur was suggested to return as Excalibur II, supposedly fighting Ming 2 in its head-to-head. Whoever wrote this article must have had a mix-up or a time machine, as they go on to describe Ming 2 as having a 'hydraulic crusher' and 'side blades' (presumably of the spinning kind).
• Regardless of its opponent's mistaken identity, Excalibur II had its aluminium armour and rear chassis damaged, before getting roasted and pitted. Shunt eventually cleared the debris and the defeated Excalibur II out of the arena.

But perhaps the most illuminating of all is this extract on the House Robot demonstrations:

"Crowd favourite Matilda, who looks more like a friendly hedgehog than a lethal fighting machine, quickly shows her combative capability by slicing in half an unsuspecting log with her protruding saw; robotic bad boy Shunt - 105kg-worth of mischievous metal - uses his lifting mechanism to pick-up idle pieces of debris and hurl them into the violence-drenched air; while Refbot, the latest house robot, gracefully glides around the cage to the Match of the Day theme tune."

— Watford Observer

You know what Matilda does in her Series 4 intro?

Yes, we have potential proof that one of the House Robot demos definitely made it to TV. VulcansHowl 21:58, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

A Chat with Andrew Marchant

So I've been trying to contact several roboteers the past few days about Robot Mayhem 2000 as well as any knowledge on F2Q robots. Andrew Marchant of Team Tornado provided some interesting insight. Here's some of the Private Conversations I had might provide some interesting insight to the qualifiers, although admittingly some of this is already on the Tornado website:

"Our website does hint at how poor the technical standards were - so many teams were using parts or methods we had been told were not acceptable on safety grounds - but they were allowed to run in the auditions. However it seems this was to give the audience something to watch, and to give the people who had built the robot a chance to drive in the arena - even if on technical grounds they were already excluded. I mention this on our heat day entry (8/8/00)."

— Andrew Marchant 2023

Interesting that the safety standards had NOT improved from Series 3 during these qualifiers and robots seemed to just be allowed in despite weapons and weight breaking rules...

"Unfortunately the list of robots (I assume for the Wiki etc?) will never be truly complete. For every robot that made it into the public eye, there were at least 10 more that never did. For example, I went to uni with a gent who did a degree in robotics and went to work at a robotics company at his home in Guernsey. The absolute ideal skills for building a robot, you would think yes? We stayed friends after uni (we had been in the motor club together) and once he realised we were building for TV, we would spend quite a few hours chatting on the phone about how our machine was going - and his plans and what he was building. By the time of around the first extreme, his robot was finished apparently - but the closest he got to competing was a ferry queue and cancelled ferry. I never knew the name of, let alone ever saw a picture of his 6 legged walker hydraulic full body crusher (if it ever existed)... Another friend was also "building a robot", that one was at best a couple of car ramps and a pair of wheelchair motors sat in his garage."

— Andrew Marchant 2023

Quite an unfortunate story of a walker that attempted to qualify but missed a ferry.

The image Andrew took of the unknown spinner which is believed to be "Thunderbolt 3"

Thunderbolt 3 in a live event in 2002, note the elevated centre, shape and teeth

Currently he's trying to help me identify the unknown full body spinner from the Series 7 qualifiers, theory is it's "Thunderbolt 3" but not fully confirmed but Andrew believes these are the same machines! But he did give me a new photo of that mysterious robot as well as other photos of Thunderbolt 3 from a live event which does further give merit to that theory.

"I think it's a fair summation that these are the same machine. Interesting how much "black" there is under the spinning blade, so the weapon was quite high up. The shape is so similar, and the red and yellow colours... The photo at S7 shows a guard around the blade, the rules at the time meant we all had to have guards on everything. They were a right faff!"

— Andrew Marchant 2023

"As for S5 qualifiers/live tours, we were never invited. If we were asked I expect we had to politely refuse - there was only so much holiday time from work we all had available, and our employer (we all worked at the same place) probably wasn't so happy that we we all out for extended periods. The only things we did around then were the Earls Court S5/Extreme 1 filming (which was such a s**tshow we went to the school event Wilsons Day on the Sunday!) and then the proper filming at RAF Newton."

— Andrew Marchant 2023

Was curious if Tornado was at the Series 5 qualifiers/live tour but it wasn't due to the team preferring to have a holiday.

So yeah make with it with what you think. I am currently waiting on Simon Harrison who said he's looking through Series 7 qualifier stuff, so hopefully more information at a later date.Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 17:04, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Six legs, hydraulics and a 'full body crusher'? Sounds like we missed out on a British Mechadon based on that description! :(

Concerning Robot Mayhem, I suppose the main safety improvements that were implemented were the redesigned arena and the methods in which robots were brought in and out of it. The Tinweb thread suggests that this aspect was praised by roboteers in attendance, such as Mazakari's Phill Sievers, while also revealing reservations from Derek Foxwell surrounding the continued use of keyswitches around this time.

I've never heard much about "Thunderbolt 3" beyond the Team Tornado website, but there are other photos of it from their War in the Wolds entry which give us a closer look at its weaponry. Specifically this one, which shows bigger blades and the absence of a solid rim near the shell's base. Perhaps the rim was integrated into a new shell specifically designed for Series 7 - the ground clearance remains consistently high between each of these given photos. VulcansHowl 18:04, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

The thing is, there's three images and one of the other images show that the teeth of the spinner overlapped as if the shell was rotated slightly so that big safety bar/ring was placed on. The teeth look similar in the other images. Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 19:05, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Robot Mayhem and Live Event tour pages

As some of you might already be aware, one of my recent projects has been to create brand-new page drafts for Robot Mayhem and the 2001 Live Events, using information that is already widely available for the Series 4-5 qualifiers. I must thank Diotoir, Drop Zone Mk2, RobotManiac, SFCJack and Snowdog140 for their input on these so far, whether it be providing feedback for improvements; gathering extra information/sources on specific qualifiers, competitors and show elements; or merely sending compliments to the project.

At 82,020 82,104 and 69,732 characters respectively, I feel that both pages have more than enough content for them to be added to the mainspace as they currently are. But before I do that, are there any extra improvements/content suggestions you would like to put forward to enhance these further? VulcansHowl 13:13, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

I think for the sections about unspecified dates, you should still add the statboxes like what you've done for the dated entries, just for consistency. Aside from that I think they're good to go. One extra detail is Keith Williams recalls seeing Kronic and Iron-Awe at the session he took part in, but this unfortunately still doesn't give us an exact date as those two robot's qualifiers are both still on unspecified dates. RobotManiac (talk) 14:42, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

That's what I've been thinking as well. Since we have a substantial list of competitors whose qualifier dates cannot be easily accounted for, there's a chance that the extra 'List of Known Competitors' sub-sub section could end up being very long.

One idea I'm proposing is for the remaining statsboxes to be added to each individual undated fight, but I'm happy to go with a conventional list if that's what the community prefers. VulcansHowl 15:06, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

That could be better actually, it would look neater and not have the section too long. I think that'd work rather than a huge sub-sub section RobotManiac (talk) 15:52, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your input, RobotManiac. Gone ahead and added some trial statsboxes for Agvart vs Henry 2 and both Dantomkia qualifiers. VulcansHowl 15:54, 28 January 2023 (UTC)