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ControversyEdit

Ok, clearly we need to talk about this because the same controversies keep popping up after I delete them, and I don't want to put the page in Protected mode. This page is not for every little trifling matter that amounted to a robot being seeded one place too high or too low. It goes without saying that empirical evidence (like how impressive it looked in battle and how much it impressed the people in charge of seedings) often carries more weight than the raw statistics. Remember, seedings are expectations of how well they think a robot will do, they're drafted by a human being not a computer, so if a "controversial seeding" can be explained by "X robot could reasonably be expected to finish in that place," don't add it. Here are a few I'd like to not see on htis page again.

How is Tornado's seeding controversial in Series 6? They were short two Series 5 finalists so they dipped into the ones from Series 4. Stinger only made it one battle further than Tornado in Series 5, so I don't see why only Tornado's seeding is so controversial. And who exactly are the "some" found it unfair? (Hint: don't respond with "I did")

Panic Attack was the Series 2 Grand Champion, it's not that controversial for it to be one rank above former grand finalists with virtually zero other pedigree to their name, especially when Panic Attack itself was only one battle shy of the grand final. Besides, Steg 2 and Firestorm are already mentioned as being too low so it's kind of redundant.

Diotoir in Series 4, there are only three that you can really make a strong case shouldn't have been seeded higher than it; Killerhurtz Cerberus, and Aggrobot; everyone else was a semifinalist at one point and Diotoir never was.

I'll give anyone a chance to appeal these. RA2; aka Resetti's Replicas. (My Talk) 21:16, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

I don't believe these even deserve discussion. I've immediately cut the section about Panic Attack - it deserved a high seed because of its success in Series 2. However, I agreed with the point about Steg 2 being the lowest seeded Grand Finalist so I've kept that.
I agree with you about Diotoir, so I've removed it as well. I also reviewed and removed Stinger because frankly I don't think anyone cared about seeds after Mortis. Similarly, I've removed controversy about Stinger in Series 5 for the same reason we don't complain about Panic Attack in Series 4 - Stinger had a one off fluke whilst Hypno-Disc and Razer were consistently dominant. And I have cut the discussion on Tornado in Series 6 because it may have lost in Series 5, but it absolutely dominated Extreme and given the fact that it won the entire series, I don't think anyone can call it a bad choice of seed. And finally, I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about Terrorhurtz's seeding in Series 7, I believe that its only an opinion so I've cut it.
Anyone can appeal my choices to remove information, I'm happy to allow it back in if a consensus is sufficiently satisfied that something belongs. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 22:01, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
I feel the note about Terrorhurtz is notable. If we're saying that seeds mean producer's expectations, I would find it controversial that they gave the 3rd place prediction to a robot they knew for months would be unable to compete at all. ToastUltimatum 23:55, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
I'll agree with that much, although the speculation about "making the seeds looks good" isn't well supported when they passed on SMIDSY, Raging Reality, Disc-O-Inferno etc. RA2; aka Resetti's Replicas. (My Talk) 00:14, February 21, 2012 (UTC)
I'm removing the blurb about there being too many seeds in Series 5, because there was no better number than 24. It has to be a multiple of 12, else they can't be evenly distributed, and cutting down to 12 would mean that at least 4 semifinalists would be unseeded. And I think everyone can agree that 36 or higher is ludicrous. RA2; aka Resetti's Replicas. (My Talk) 04:57, December 5, 2012 (UTC)
Not to mention rediculously unbalanced. But this did seem to be the very realization we had during our redone Series 5. CrashBash (talk) 17:40, December 5, 2012 (UTC)

Griffon's SeedEdit

I though that seeds were decided before qualifying robots, and by extension reserves, were decided so the seeds can skip the qualifiers, meaning Griffon's status as a reserve wouldn't have affected his seed. The Samster (talk) 17:20, May 3, 2012 (UTC)

My understanding is that the producers weren't very impressed with the new robot, so they didn't give it a place in the series, and its seeding was given to another robot. When Reckless Endangerment pulled out, it was given a second chance, but the seedings had already been decided by then. Christophee (talk) 12:01, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

Ming Dienasty Edit

Does anybody know whether the draw for the heat lineups was made before Dominator 2 pulled out? Is it possible that the draw was already made, and Dominator 2 was in the same heat as Ming Dienasty, so when Dominator 2 pulled out, the producers chose the most suitable robot from its heat to take its seeding. I haven't seen this theory put forward anywhere before, but I've always thought it was a possibility. Christophee (talk) 12:13, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

I think I've heard this theory on the wiki before, and I certainly see it as a sound one. If I'm honest, I don't know, but it would make sense, considering the number of people that disagree with the seeding. Though if this is the case, which of the others was the reserve pulled in at the last minute? Datovidny (talk) 15:15, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
Well, we know that Ceros and Metalis lost their qualifying battles, but were given discretionary places. Is it possible that one of them was originally a reserve or do we know for a fact that neither of them were? I wish I knew where all the qualifying results were taken from... Christophee (talk) 14:48, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
Come to think about it, that might have explained why there wasn't a replacement seed for Terrorhurtz, since none of the other robots had ever really achieved anything prior. CrashBash (talk) 15:07, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

Datovidny, do you think the St. Agro team might know anything about this? I believe you are friends with that team, and of course, they won Ming Dienasty's heat. ToastUltimatum 15:15, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

I think you have me mixed up with another user, I believe somebody on here is friends with them, but not me. Datovidny (talk) 16:21, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
TG is our go to guy for contacting teams. I can't right now but someone else is welcome to send him a message. The discretionary places weren't usually decided on the spot, typically the teams that lost their q. battles would get a telephone call a few days later if they had been awarded one. The most likely case is that Scrapper was the reserve, as it was one of two with with no prior experience, and IMO, the worse looking. But that's just speculation, as is this "next-best" seeding theory. There's also the problem that the intended heat letters would be all scrambled up because of this change, and we don't know if that's something they could do at the last minute. RA2; aka Resetti's Replicas. (My Talk) 18:52, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
Well, we know that the intended heat letters have been scrambled before, even in Series 7. Heats A and E were swapped around, and even a wallchart showing the S7 line-up didn't show this, from one story I heard. CrashBash (talk) 19:06, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

Interestingly, a Robot Wars newsletter I own gives bios for six seeded entrants of Series 7. One was Ming Dienasty. Another was Dominator 2. ToastUltimatum 01:52, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, more showed up later in the newsletter. The only seed without a bio was Behemoth. ToastUltimatum 01:59, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Mini Morg Edit

There's two main theories for why Mini Morg had such a high seed, you guys can decide if it's worth noting.

  1. The Morgue's heat final loss was very controversial, and many considered The Morgue to have won that heat final. This isn't like Ming 3, where the match was only just about to swing in Ming 3's favour before the match was interrupted, The Morgue basically had the full beating of Firestorm in many eyes.
  2. The producers may have wanted the two bright-yellow Welsh robots in the same heat, just as Mega Morg was paired with Panic Attack in Series 7.

Paste thoughts if you wish. ToastUltimatum 23:22, May 5, 2012 (UTC)

They're interesting theories, but not supported by enough logic to sway me. I'll admit, it was interesting that Morg and PA got put in the same heat twice, but I can't see what they'd gain from that, apart from tricking a foolish American replica master into thinking that yellow was Wales' national colour. RA2; aka Resetti's Replicas. (My Talk) 00:44, May 6, 2012 (UTC)
I agree with RA2. I think we need to cut right back on speculation. If enough people say it, you start to accept it as fact and then we might as well be a fan fiction Wiki. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 03:14, May 6, 2012 (UTC)
Another theory I had which may have contributed to Mini Morg's high seeding was the teams popularity and sportsmanship. Sir Chromalot was given a seeding in Series 4 for their entertainment value, so maybe sportsmanship value was part of why Mini Morg got a surprisingly high seed. Now,this is just a theory, and I wanted to see what everyone else thought. Drop Zone mk2 (talk) 11:43, January 18, 2015 (UTC)

Regular Seeds - Fixing Edit

Here's a thought. Since Toon Ganondorf bought up the issue that the "Regular Seeds" page is too long, and I do agree with him on that, we should find a way to narrow it down. Maybe we should find a way to remove the clutter of "Seeded X in Yth war" and so on because that isn't really neccessary. CrashBash (talk) 06:14, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Well, it seems that's been done without a consensus, not that I would've protested anyway. Datovidny (talk) 12:02, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

Is this controversial enough? Edit

The main flaws with the Series 7 seeding typically involve Terrorhurtz and Ming Dienasty, but I have one other problem with it, and this is the placement of Behemoth and X-Terminator. Behemoth was seeded 10th, and X-Terminator was seeded 11th, but I think this should have been the other way around. Behemoth was a series semi-finalist in Series 2, X-Terminator was a seed in Series 4, which would justify X-Terminator the higher seeding. Behemoth fell in the second round of the Sixth Wars, X-Terminator made the heat final, so again, X-Terminator has outperformed Behemoth. X-Terminator went on to be a grand finalist in Series 7, and I'm sure the producers knew how destructive X-Terminator was going to be, and if seedings are supposed to be a list of favourites, X-Terminator would go above Behemoth. And most importantly, X-Terminator has beaten Behemoth before.

So I definitely think there was a mistake in the seeding there, but I don't see other people discussing this, so it may not be considered controversial enough to go on the article. Thoughts? ToastUltimatum 13:42, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

The main belief is that Behemoth was seeded higher partly due to reaching the final of the First World Championships, and just doing generally quite well in odd competitions since then. Behemoth was also a bit more of a household name than X-Terminator, and if X-Terminator was seeded to high, it would be a given that it would perform really well, sort of. Besides, it's just the one seed placing, so it's not really that much of a big deal if you ask me, but it was a fair point to raise. Datovidny (talk) 14:08, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
Behemoth definitely outperformed X-Terminator in Extreme Series 1, but I would say not in Extreme 2. Yes, it can beat Riptillion, but it lost to a little-heard of machine in Chompalot in the Iron Maidens in Round 2, and then lost in the first round to even more little-known and generally worse robots in CV and Infinity. X-Terminator was more impressive on its pathway to Round 2 in the Tag Team Terror, but this doesn't really matter, as it most likely isn't article-worthy. Still, should an Audited Series 7 come around, you can bet I'll change the seeds around a little. ToastUltimatum 14:43, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
I really don't think this is notable enough to be mentioned on the page. There are arguments for both sides so I don't see it as a big controversy. Christophee (talk) 16:31, August 22, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, on the subject on Behemoth, I'd like to remove it from the Controversy section on the Fourth Wars bit. It was a top 8 finisher in Series 2, as well as top 32 in Series 3, so this is easily enough to give it a seeding, and on top of this was second in the World Championship. Going back to that Heat Final against Pitbull Behemoth was clearly on top until the interference, so it could've been some kind of compensation, but I think on its past Behemoth deserved Top 10 minimum at this point in history. snowdog140 12:15, November 23, 2012 (UTC)

I myself believe that Pitbull was winning the battle prior to the interference anyway. Behemoth deserved a seed, but surely not as high as 6, I would keep the point. After all, if something is controversial, some people agree and others don't, you're clearly one that agrees. ToastUltimatum 12:34, November 23, 2012 (UTC)

I thought the Series 7 Seeds were based mainly on experience, since aside from the returning Semi-Finalists from Series 6, all the others are potential Series 7 All-Stars Competitors with the obvious exception of Storm 2.--Nononsensecapeesh (talk) 12:20, November 23, 2012 (UTC)

Series 7 was XT's first time in the last eight at least, Behemoth had reached that stage five years previously. Vampireweekend4ever (talk) 21:32, June 7, 2014 (UTC)

I think Philippa might have got it wrongEdit

Or maybe it was the people who organized the lineup, but I think the reason that Atomic was drawn against Hypno Disc in only round two was due to something like a breakdown in communication that either meant the people who made the lineup thought Bulldog Breed was the seeded one, or Philippa got it wrong, and it was in fact Bulldog Breed who was seeded 22, if I'm honest, the second looks more plausible. Did Atomic from series 4 really look that impressive? Impressive enough to get it a seed the next year? At least Bulldog Breed took out a top 16 seed, and were veterans from the year before, despite losing to Robopig. I honestly think that Bulldog Breed was seeded 22, and that Atomic was unseeded, the idea came to me when reorganizing the series 5 seeds, and putting the heat finalists in, Mini Morg was instantly ruled out, and so where the others that didn't come back. I ended up coming to the conclusion of not giving Kronic and Atomic seeds, and instead giving Bulldog Breed and SMIDSY one, mainly because they were around in series 3. I'm not entirely sure on this, and as it was mentioned on the show, I doubt the number 22 seeds will be changed to Bulldog Breed as it is confusing, but it could be worth a mention of some sort. RelicRaider (talk) 22:26, August 26, 2013 (UTC)

Surely Philippa's word is not the only source we have for the Series 5 seedings. I know they weren't on the battle board or stats board in Series 5, but they must have been mentioned somewhere else on the show. Christophee (talk) 22:37, August 26, 2013 (UTC)
Sorry, but the Robot Wars Magazine made two full references listing Atomic as the 22nd seed. Heck, it was on their Series 5 wallchart. CrashBash (talk) 22:41, August 26, 2013 (UTC)
Must've been the people organizing the lineup then. Still, I think Bulldog Breed was a more worthy candidate of a seed than Atomic based on it's series 4 performance. RelicRaider (talk) 23:31, August 26, 2013 (UTC)
It could've been seeded from a live show. SMIDSY was seeded in S5 because they volunteered to do more fights at a live show after Derek Foxwell promised them qualification. RA2; aka Resetti's Replicas. (My Talk) 14:04, August 27, 2013 (UTC)

Series 5 seeds Edit

RWM5seeds

See the part on the Fifth Wars.

I was reading through one of the issues of the original Robot Wars Magazine, and it menions about the Series 5 qualifiers. It explains that the top 16 robots (i.e. the 16 Semi-Finalists from Series 4 automatically qualified, and the eight other seeds were decided after the qualifiers. So presumably, 101, Behemoth, Suicidal Tendencies and Gemini all had to go through the qualifiers, just like Mini Morg, Razer, Atomic 2 and S.M.I.D.S.Y. I'll edit the Series 5 section with a bit about "Due to the reduction of seeds from 32 to 24, because Series 5 had 12 Heats instead of 16, only the Semi-Finalists from the previous series automatically qualified. The eight other seeds were decided after the qualifiers. Drop Zone mk2 (talk) 12:15, February 5, 2016 (UTC)

Drastic reduction Edit

This page is so chock full of subjective opinion it barely functions as an informative article. However, I think some of the controversies are still worth noting, I just don't want it to be called a "controversy". The "success rate" part is good, but nearly everything written under "controversy" is in violation of Robot Wars Wiki:Subjective Beliefs. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 06:54, August 18, 2016 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure you wrote most of that subjective opinion, so really it's your call. Not trying to have a dig, just an observation. CrashBash (talk) 15:47, August 20, 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, but I'm more looking for suggestions at how to include the legitimate observations without making stuff up. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 22:54, August 20, 2016 (UTC)
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