Talk:Storm 2/Controversy

Third World Championship

Whilst we're here, can someone confirm whether another little incident that happened was the direct result of the producers trying to prevent Storm 2 winning, this time the Third World Championships.

As you know, Supernova thrust itself against the arena wall and got stuck. The judges said that Refbot should have counted it out....so why didn't it?

OK, fair enough, its counter could have broken down. But if it was immobilised, why was it freed?

OK, fair enough again, Refbot has freed robots stuck on the arena wall before and such....BUT here's the big thing. If all this was the case, WHY, whilst that was happening, did Shunt come out of its CPZ, attack Storm 2 and flip IT against the arena wall, when it was nowhere near the CPZ?

Maybe it's just me, but I suspect that this was deliberate interfearance by the producers, AGAIN, to prevent Storm 2 winning. If someone can confirm or disprove this, that'll be great. CBFan (talk) 10:17, November 15, 2009 (UTC)

Quotes

I may need to add references for the last two quotes but I don't know where they came from. I can't find the first one on Team Storm's website so I'm assuming it came from somewhere else. I'm guessing the second one is from the diary on the Supernova website but it can't be accessed at the moment so I can't check. Somebody must know where they came from. Christophee (talk) 02:35, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Those two came from the FRA forum, so they're kosher. RA2; aka Resetti's Replicas. (My Talk) 05:03, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Okay, good. I'll just make sure it's clear. Christophee (talk) 23:43, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

Mentorn Blog

I recently found this old blog from Mentorn, of them trying to justify why they tried to hinder Storm 2's success on the show.

"What the audience wants is a robot that when they see it on display or just entering the arena, they think...WOW! Rambots never really have that appeal, as they’re usually just boxes on wheels. With robots with moving weapons, there is a sense of theatre and drama; when sparks fly from the attack of a flywheel, or a robot flying in the air after an attack from a flipper. All that rambots seem to deliver is a push and a shove, yes they win the battle, but it doesn’t win our imaginations, or the fans’."

— Old Mentorn Blog

I can't find the link that leads to this, sorry. Is it worth putting this blog/quote on this article? Datovidny (talk) 12:47, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

Certainly. Nice find. If you ever do retrieve the link, please do tell. RA2; aka Resetti's Replicas. (My Talk) 18:06, February 5, 2012 (UTC)

Non POV

This is something that has troubled me for a while. This article appears to me as weighted heavily towards the point of view of the Storm 2 team, and cites as sources only Team Storm's website, which I do not believe for something such as this to be an appropriate source. Opinions please? Matt^{Talk to me} 20:30, December 21, 2012 (UTC)

It was convenient to do it that way because we only had one half of the story. Gary Cairns added some input that dilutes Storm 2's arguments, so we can cut down on that fight anyways. The emotional and opinionated parts are quite a bit thick for my liking ("flabbergasted" for example), so that can be trimmed too. RA2; aka Resetti's Replicas. (My Talk) 20:56, December 21, 2012 (UTC)

Gary Cairns clarifies

Not sure if i should add this here or not, but Gary Cairns recently clarified a few things in regards to their various controversies. (scroll down half way) https://www.reddit.com/r/robotwars/comments/4sngth/for_those_interested_here_is_a_rundown_on/

Thanks for the link; it is really nice to see the controversy from the Typhoon 2 team's perspective, as I always wondered what their thoughts were on the matter. For those that don't want to click the link, here is Cairns' comments:

"Ah this old chestnut. I'm always in two minds about whether I should reply to these things and correct them or just leave them as is.

Ok each of your points in turn,

• We weren't in cahoots with the producers. They liked the team as we were a mix of experienced engineers and teenagers but we had no arrangements, agreements etc with the producers at all.

• No repairs were carried out to typhoon 2 between wall collisions on both occasions (xterminator and storm 2). I'm not sure if you have seen the insides of typhoon 2 but it's near impossible to carry out any meaningful repair work without access to a comprehensive workshop (lathes, mills etc). The robots were kept separate from the teams during the arena repairs and in the case of the xterminator fight, locked in a cage overnight.

• We cleared the double entry with the producers beforehand. If they had had a problem with it, we never would have entered the two entries. They were in separate heats beforehand and both made it to the final.

• I'm sorry you feel so negatively towards the team but hey ho, what's in the past is in the past."

Then:

"Sure thing. I'll not comment on the storm 2 website.

• The judges took a look over the outside of the machines. At no point did they ask to see the inside of typhoon 2 (we would have been happy to show them). A drive chain had been thrown from one of the four wheels but this was from the wheel that had buckled slightly during our collision with the arena side wall during the x-terminator fight (the chain was thrown that time as well). There was no way for us to correct this buckling in the pits so we just refitted the chain and left it.

• As the robot was designed with two independent drive systems, either of which could drive the robot with the other down, I had no reason to suspect there was damage to the robot and so it didn't cross my mind during the post match interview.

• Had the panel not come away from the front of Storm 2 they probably would have won the match, but it did and that's that.

• Another point that's usually brought up is the fact that we didn't fight in the world champ competition after the final. We only had a single set of batteries with us as in all honesty we didn't think the situation would come up where we would have to pick which machine to fight with! Since we had won the middleweight champ in the previous two years, we had more draw to retain that title than fight in the world champs.

• The series 7 final was close and I'm amazed that it's still being talked about so many years on!"

And finally:

"Chain for the weapon? No. The disc was functioning fine at the end of the match.

• A drive chain had been thrown but this was from damage from a previous match up (I go into more detail in another comment here)

• From memory the photo that's kicking around showing a chain missing on the chassis was actually from our run in with megabyte in the US during the robolympics competition we attended. This did cause significant damage to typhoon 2 resulting in us throwing the final (shame as I really wanted to fight sewer snake!) but that's robot fighting for you!"

All I can say from this is that twelve years on, it starts up again. Hopefully, this will clear Typhoon 2 and its teams names from this unfortunate issue. SpaceManiac888 (talk) 16:39, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

I think both sides should be included. Otherwise it's just bias from one team. --MasterMarik (talk) 16:42, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

Looking through it all, it seems that Team Storm and Team Typhoon's stories, as we know them, don't entirely match up. I'm all for adding the new information, but it feels we've got a LOT to say between both these robots, almost like it'd need an extra page entirely. CrashBash (talk) 17:25, July 14, 2016 (UTC)

Necessary Culling

I feel like we need to address the unbalanced and conjectural tone of this page. We've corrected some of the inaccuracies, but we still spell them out in great detail. It's a highly deceptive method of writing because we're arguing so hard for a lie, then just mentioning the truth in passing. If we even suggest that debunked conspiracy theories have merit, we're no better than anti-vaxxers. The false allegations are worth mentioning in single sentences at best, followed by a truth bomb from Typhoon. Also, I don't agree with having material from the 2016 wars because, while it is a controversy that involves Storm 2, it is not in the spirit of the page; blatant interference from the producers (as much is mentioned in the opening paragraph.) Open to thoughts. RA2; aka Resetti's Replicas. (My Talk) 01:03, August 23, 2016 (UTC)

Though I would need to peruse the page again, my gut immediately goes with RA2. I think that all the content relating to Firestorm and Tornado and Supernova can probably remain but the Typhoon 2 section needs to be gutted. The allegations can be made by each side but that content belongs on the S7 Grand Final page. Once this page is reduced (I agree that 2016 content has no place here) I think we could reconsider making this a section of Storm 2's article again, depending on how much remains. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 10:41, August 23, 2016 (UTC)

I don't really mind what happens to this page, if somebody culled it, I wouldn't interfere. I do think Storm2 vs Eruption is particularly worthy of mention now that robots such as Apollo and Ironside3 have been ruled out because of shorter 10 second immobilisations. ToastUltimatum 11:49, August 23, 2016 (UTC)

I'd like to see the 2016 section cut down to a few sentences. It isn't as significant as the others, and I don't feel we need to qualify the jusges' decision with a complete play-by-play. RA2; aka Resetti's Replicas. (My Talk) 12:02, August 23, 2016 (UTC)

As someone who reads the wiki as much as they contribute, in fact probably more so, I find pages like this, and the seeding, as well as some of the more subjective sections the most interesting. Some of it may be a little opinionated, but these are always the pages I come back to, and now with the added opinions from team typhoon, even more so. I know this is an encyclopaedia, and we shouldn't exactly have opinionated views, but I do find when there's a little more humanity behind the writing, it makes for a more interesting read, it's why I come back to everyone's list pages again and again. They're good reads. But I guess if enough people agree, I won't stand in the way changes. RelicRaider (talk) 12:09, August 23, 2016 (UTC)

I agree that this is one of the more interesting pages to read, but the content needs to be encyclopedic and free of conjecture and speculation. I think that can be achieved quite easily by cutting it down to the facts and a few informative quotes. Christophee (talk) 12:38, August 23, 2016 (UTC)

I feel that Eruptions judges decision will go adequately on the judges page, rather than this page which should be reserved for the producer interference. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 12:52, August 23, 2016 (UTC)

Judgement Day for this article

Continuing an off-site discussion, a few of the more seasoned editors are coming to the consensus that the time has come for this article to be deleted. I personally would like the bulk of it to remain on the Storm 2 page, and feel that it is written neutrally, I know that others feel that even giving oxygen to Hoppit's allegations gives us a bad name. The mood has shifted heavily against Storm 2 in recent years. I took such a strong stance against including Gareth Antsee's allegations against Glitterbomb in any article, and even before that I was heavily outvoted on the benign inclusion of "rivalries" for Ironside/Pulsar and Apollo/Carbide. Getting rid of this feels consistent with those decisions. Let's air our views, but I suspect the winds of change are coming. Toon Ganondorf (t c) 07:53, June 28, 2020 (UTC)

I dunno, I personally think the information should stay (whether it's all moved to the Storm 2 page or kept on this page).Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 10:34, June 28, 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sure, some of the information probably should be kept, but if the page were to be deleted, I still think we need to keep the Grand Final Eliminator (where Tornado is allegedly pitted), as that is somewhat evident in the battle and Refbot pressed the pit release for some reason, and the Grand Final as well, even if it's just a short piece about the post-battle interviews. Adster1005 14:26, June 28, 2020 (UTC)

I'm of the personal opinion that we delete the page. The only information we should keep for other pages on the Wiki are things that have been verified by both sides or widely known as true. NJGW (talk) 14:53, June 28, 2020 (UTC)

I agree with deleting. We had at one point, a reasonable argument under the belief that Storm 2’s blog was unbiased and omniscient, but with a direct line to other first hand witnesses, we started to poke holes in things that Storm swore on the cross to be gospel. Now we’re left with maybe one or two legitimate undisputed producer interferences, and the bulk just being unfortunate things spun out into something more through confirmation bias. Now you may say, why not just cull it down to the confirmed interferences? Well, I argue that it’s time to give over to the fundamental truth that we try to ignore in this wiki, Robot Wars is a TV show. Almost universally, the veterans will describe Robot Wars as a pseudo-competition that does call for skill and is ultimately won on merit, BUT, the primary objective is to make entertainment, even if it means stepping on a fair competition. No matter what we write here, and no matter what they did do to Storm, it’s deceptive for us to imply that Storm 2 was the only one it happened to. RA2; aka Resetti's Replicas. (My Talk) 15:08, June 28, 2020 (UTC)

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