OK, so Jimlaad's recent ranking post of the final of this Wiki's Arena tournaments has got me interested to read some of the ones from before I returned to this Wiki full time in Feb 2016. We've been doing them for 10+ years now, and, looking over them, we'll see that opinions of certain robots' capabilities have changed over time.
Part of that can be contributed to the revolving door of users who have come and gone on here over the past decade; part of that could also maybe be put down to us all becoming older and a bit more charitable towards robots we don't really care for/dislike. And then there are those that are down to us taking the time to reassess how well a robot might really do in the right circumstances, rather than going simply on what we saw of them on TV, which, for some who only bowed out early due to an unlucky draw, is a tad unfair.
So, lets look back at some of the older tournaments on this Wiki and some battles that would probably not get the same outcome were we, the current crop of regulars, to be voting on them. (And, by 'older', I mean pre 2016 Audited S4, which SpaceManiac recently claimed to be the start of the Arena tournaments becoming popular again)...
Audited Series 5 (2012)[]
I'll kick things off with a few from a tournament I'll be talking about a bit more here at some point:
Gravedigger vs Disc-O-Inferno (Heat C)[]
Firstly, a battle that would probably still get the same result, but maybe not be as one sided. Disc-O-Inferno won this battle 8-1, and that's fair enough, I'd probably have voted the same way at the time. Nowadays, I'd probably still say the same, but I'd rate Gravedigger with a higher chance of victory than I would before. S5 Gravedigger with the axe looked solid enough from what little we saw of it, and were it not drawn against Tornado, I fancy it could've won at least one fight. Not to mention Disc-O-Inferno's poor reliability which dogged it throughout the series, who's to say it could knock something loose?
3 Stegs to Heaven vs Judge Shred 2½ (Heat F)[]
The seeded 3 Stegs lost this fight narrowly, 5-4, thus bowing out in the first round. Nowadays, now that more of us have more respect for the damage potential of 3 Stegs' front spinner, which it never really got a chance to use properly in actual S5, I fancy this match could tip the other way nowadays.
Wild Thing vs Diotoir (Heat J)[]
Like in actual S5, Diotoir pulled off a surprise second round win over the heat favourite, beating the No 6 seed 7-2. The victory seemed mainly reliant on Diotoir's scoop giving it the advantage in a pushing match between the two, and the ineffectiveness of Wild Thing's spinning weapon. While I agree that the disc will do little damage beside a bit of fur ripping, and maintain that adding the disc negated Wild Thing's wedge and pushing power, which worked so well for it in S4, I personally would still side with the Adams family in this one, and I suspect most others currently around who weren't then would do the same.
UPDATE: In fact, now I re-read Audited Ex1, these two met each other in the final of the European Championship, and Wild Thing won that one 5-4. So, there we go: this one has already be overturned on here, no need to argue for it.
Pussycat vs 13 Black and S3 (Heat L)[]
The second seed won the heat final against Wolverine comfortably, 8-2, but had earlier only just beaten 13 Black 6-4 and needed a judges decision to scrape past S3 after a 6-all draw. And while I personally agree with it beaten 13 Black, which wasn't quite a world beater yet in S5 and has plenty of body to attack while avoiding the spinners, I'd have been very tempted to side with S3 in the second round. S3 is very nimble, solidly constructed in a way that even Pussycat's weapon would only cause minor damage at best, and as soon as that disc catches an exposed wheel, it'd be game over. I don't know how many others would agree with me, but, were we to rerun that heat now, I somehow don't fancy Pussycat to reach the semis.
Chaos 2 vs Panic Attack (Semi-Final 1)[]
This is one of those match ups that is none of us is ever going to agree on. Panic Attack narrowly won this 6-4; with a different roster of voters, it could easily swing the other way. I personally would back Chaos 2 in Series 3 and 6, while 4 and 5 would be too close for me to call, but I'd probably lean towards Chaos 2 still, albeit not that confidently.
Semi-Final 2[]
Ooh, three worth discussing here. Firstly, Wheely Big Cheese vs Spawn Again vs Supernova, which Roger Plant's machine closely won 4-3-2. Most agree that Spawn Again beating Supernova in S6 was a one-in-several chance happening, so we can agree with that. But I think most nowadays would probably back Supernova to beat Hweely Big Cheese, which isn't anywhere near as trusted nowadays to be reliable in any episode other than its Series 5 heat.
For the same reasons, Wheely Big Cheese vs Pussycat would probably be a certain win for Pussycat now, rather than a narrow 6-5 win for Cool Hweely. Nor would it beat Panic Attack 7-3 either.
Which brings us to Hypno-Disc vs Razer. I think CrashBash hit the nail on the head when he said Hypno-Disc would win in Series 3 and 4 and Razer would in S6. This is the only series where the outcome is kind of up in the air, as evidenced by the 6-5 win for Hypno-Disc we got here. Nowadays, though, I think most of us are rather untrustworthy of Hypno-Disc in S5, given its numerous breakdowns in that filming block. It certainly wouldn't win any Audited S5 we do now I reckon.
Old vs New (2016)[]
Many think this tournament a good idea poorly executed, and I kinda agree. As much as we may loath the UK vs Germany (among others) format of keeping the two factions apart until the final, it may have been a good idea to do something similar to that here.
Let's start by looking at the three that Space bought up below yesterday:
101 (S3) vs UFO (S7) (Heat C)[]
101 won this 6-1, but I'm inclined to agree with Space that UFO would probably win this one nowadays. Series 5 101 with the front fork things I'd back to beat UFO, they'd keep it on the ground and allow it to push better. But the first 101 was very prone to driving up the front of wedge shaped/sloping robots, and I feel it would be prone to this against UFO, and get flipped.
Revenge of Trouble & Strife (S6) vs Mega Hurts LT (Heat C)[]
Mega Hurts narrowly won this all-new clash 5-3. It's arguable either way this one IMO; we have more to go on with regards to Revenge of Trouble & Strife, so can maybe give a fairer verdict on it. Its spinner did at least work, but it was never really against the right sort of opponent to accurately show off what it could do. Given its ground clearance, and the fact that it had trouble self righting, I'd probably be inclined to go along with the original vote. I suspect the current majority would go for RoTaS though.
Barry vs Major Tom 3 (Heat D)[]
Another 5-3 win, in favour of Barry, that would almost certainly go the other way if rerun now. Again, CrashBash summed up why Barry is so overrated in his 'controversies that made no difference' list: the robot is just too fragile, despite its strong weight and decent looking scoop, it stopped working properly after getting slightly stuck. Not to mention its scoop would have to be all the way down to work properly. And, even though we hardly saw enough of Major Tom 3 to be able to have a fair idea of what it is truly capable of, I'd bet it was a half decent wedged pusher, more than capable of stopping Barry dead in its tracks should it charge it head on and out pushing it should it get the wedge under the scoop.
Extreme 1 Audited (2015)[]
Moving on to one of THE most controversial battles in RWWAF history:
Wheely Big Cheese vs Razer (All-Stars Heat A)[]
Yeah, Hweely Big Cheese won this fight 4-3. No way would this happen nowadays, what with out being more realistic about Roger Plant's robot's true potential. No way is it going to get any kind of flip on Razer; Razer's ground clearance is only penetrable to lowish powered flippers that can take a gentle approach and are very thin themselves. HBC's is too steep and too powerful. If this happened in real life, Razer would get a grip and HBC would try and fire the flipper to flip itself; one of two things would happen here: the pneumatics would burn out from trying and failing to fire, or the armour would tear and the flipper would go straight up with Razer still gripping the bottom part. Or both. Most of these battles I wasn't around for I can just about understand, but not this one, sorry.
Behemoth vs Gemini (All-Stars Heat B)[]
Behemoth won this one, and that's fair enough, but I'm surprised it was so one-sided, 9-1. Especially as Behemoth was kinda slow in Ex1 and S5, so straight away it has a disadvantage against the quick Gemini twins. Also, a lot of the votes for Behemoth appeared to be relying on the infamous hweely bars to do Gemini in, but those weren't added until after the Ex1 filming block. With no hweely bars, and a big speed advantage, I'd have been tempted to go for Gemini here, and many around now who weren't then may well too.
Panzer Mk 2 vs Supernova (Second World Championship Heat B)[]
I'm surprised by this one, given how much everyone on this Wiki usually seems to rate Supernova. And, as much as I find it a tad overrated, I do agree that it was hugely unlucky in all three original series and feel it could've done a lot better in different circumstances. Panzer Mk 2 had exposed wheels down the side and its armour didn't look all that great. To be fair, it never met a competent spinner in its career, so we don't really know for sure. With a different set of voters, Supernova could well win this one, or at least not lose as decisively as 8-2.
Ragnabot 1 (2013)[]
Drillzilla vs Bulldog Breed (S7) (Quarter-Final 2)[]
Had a quick glance over the Ragnabot basepage just now for this list, and one fight quite late on in the tournament caught my eye. Yes, the S7 Bulldog Breed was a good flipper, but good enough to defeat the very heavy Drillzilla, which can push pretty much any robot bar Razer, Tornado and Storm 2 into submission? Somehow, I doubt it. Drillzilla's quick and nimble pace, more than that of Bulldog Breed, will make it hard to get a flip on, and even if it does, I somehow don't see it even threating to turn it over. I'd personally back Drillzilla for this one.
S3 vs Rammstein (Heat G)[]
A famous contentious results this, with Rammstein defeating the two time semi-finalist 6-3. Most votes seemed to rely on S3 not being very good at pushing or being pushed, but what is really that bad on that front? Rammstein's spike will make it harder to push than a plain wedge like Storm 2 or Tornado or a flipper like Firestorm or Bigger Brother. Plus, Rammstein wouldn't have the momentum needed to carry S3 a solid distance. Plus, since this is an original series five minute battle, Rammstein's time to win is limited. Fail to finish S3 off, as I strongly suspect it would, and it's a sitting duck. Can't see this fight getting the same result were it rerun now.
A Fantasy Audited War 1 (2012-13)[]
Stinger vs Onslaught (Heat B)[]
Onslaught won this one narrowly 7-4. That could easily get turned around nowadays, given that the main reason Onslaught lost to 101 in 2016 Audited S4 was because of doubts over its steering system. I would probably be inclined to say Stinger is just the sort of robot to be able to take advantage of any long manoeuverings Onslaught may need to take.
Barber-Ous 2 'n' a Bit vs Killerhurtz (Heat E)[]
Barber-Ous 2 'n' a bit appears to be a bit of a cult favourite with this current generation of users, who seems to rate it a bit higher than it was last decade. Enough for it to be able to defeat Killerhurtz? Maybe not, but somehow I don't think it'd be a 9-0 whitewash for Teams Hurtz.
Prizephita Mach 2 vs Plunderbird 2 (Heat H)[]
Prizephita won this easily, 7-1. Nowadays, maybe not so much. Plunderbird 2 seems a lot higher rated by this current generation of users; it did win Audited S2 after all (though it probably has the Razer Reliability Roulette to thank for that). I personally don't know where I stand on this pairing, Prizephita has the better weapon, but I suspect this Plunderbird is sturdy enough to avoid getting flipped, and it'd have the pushing advantage at least. Jury's out on this one...
Wheely Big Cheese (Heat H)[]
If Prizephita did win that fight nowadays, though, it certainly wouldn't lose 6-2 to Hweely Big Cheese in the next round. Assuming HBC is even there at all, as I suspect its 8-3 first round win over Crusader 2 could well get overturned as well. Or maybe not, given than Crusader doesn't appear to be held in as high a regard on here now as it was ten years ago.
And even if HBC did get through those two fights, it'd then come up against S7 Grim Reaper, and there's not a chance it's winning THAT fight 8-3 nowadays.
Redone Series 4 (2010)[]
The Morgue vs Tiberius (Heat A)[]
The Morgue unanimously won this one 4-0. Nowadays, with a different, and much bigger, voting base that appears to rate Tiberius a bit better, maybe not. On the other hand, the similarly shaped but smaller Spikasaurus beat Tiberius in the second Audited S4, so maybe not. I'd personally got for Tiberius here; if it charges The Morgue at the right angle, the spike would pin in down a la MouseTrap, allowing it to control and win on control and damage.
Spikasaurus vs Berserk 2 (Heat B)[]
Similarly, Spikasaurus' reputation is a lot better now than it was ten years ago, and thus, a 3-2 win for Berserk 2 would likely be overturned. I'd definitely vote for Spikasaurus here; it's much quicker and its spikes would give it extra damage potential on Berserk's thinner armour.
Razer vs Mortis (Heat G)[]
A 4-0 win for Mortis that, with a different and bigger pool of voters, could easily go the other way, and indeed did in the 2012 Alternate Heat Winners series.
Wheely Big Cheese vs Henry 2 vs Atomic (Heat I)[]
For once, Hweely Big Cheese is not the matter of contention! Instead, we're going to talk about Atomic, which was unanimously voted through at Henry 2's expense due to conerns over the latter's reliability. Nowadays, Atomic's breaking down as soon as it landed back on its feet after getting flipped would be instantly cited and used to vote it out, and Henry 2 would get a classic Series 4 'got through the first round without doing anything' 'win'.
Small Torque vs Thermidor 2 vs Iron Awe (Heat K)[]
Iron Awe narrowly snuck through at Small Torque's expense 3-2. Nowadays, with a voter base that rates Small Torque better and is generally maligned against Iron Awe, now that we know it broke down in its actual first round match and got through on a technicality, I imagine it would be almost unanimously voted out.
Gravedigger vs Raizer Blade vs Attila the Drum (Heat M)[]
Raizer Blade gets an unfairly rough time on here sometimes. Yes, it was lucky to get as far as it did in S4, but to call it unreliable when most of its troubles were because of Hypno-Disc damage isn't fair as far as I'm concerned. In the brief period of time it did work properly in S4, it looked reasonably solid, very quick and with a solid flipper.
Certainly, here, it has more than a chance of side stranding Gravedigger, whose weapon we now know wouldn't work in S4 under any circumstances. And while Attila the Drum could quite easily cause damage, I highly doubt it would be as terminal as that it took from Hypno-Disc.
Steg 2 vs Splinter (Heat O)[]
Another robot whose reputation has slid somewhat in the past ten years, Steg 2 on this match unanimously; maybe wouldn't nowadays, as I suspect quite a few people would be Splinter to avoid getting meaningfully flipped and be able to push Steg 2 sufficiently to sneak a win on aggression. Enough to overturn this result? Possibly, but it'd be very close.
Audited Series 3 (2010-11)[]
Velocirippa vs X-Terminator (Heat F)[]
Velocirippa narrowly won a low scoring match 3-2. With none of those five voters among the current batch of regular voters, I strongly fancy this match to go the other way, as the general opinion of S3 X-Terminator is very strong, and the first Velocirippa's kinda isn't.
Six Pac (Heat G)[]
The non-qualifier embarked on an underdog run to the semi-finals, beating seeded All Torque 5-3, Dundee 4-3 and 101 on a 3-all judges decision before falling to King Buxton in the semis. Nowadays, now that we know more about Six Pac, that it suffered from radio issues that led to it stopping dead every few seconds, all of those results could well go the other way.
Onslaught (Heat I)[]
Similarly, Onslaught's run to the SFs, which saw it beat Pussycat 4-2, Inquisitor 5-1 and T2 4-2, may not happen nowadays, as its odd steering made it slow to react sometimes, and that could prove decisive, maybe not against the rather slow Inquisitor, but the much quicker Pussycat and T2 maybe.
Thing 2 vs Berserk 2 (Heat J)[]
A very good fight this, which Berserk 2 just about won 5-4 on its way to the SFs. That result could easily go the other way nowadays; I'd probably give this to the Adams family, given its ability to easily get underneath and bulldoze opponents and Berserk 2's known self righting troubles.
Plunderstorm vs Scutter's Revenge (Heat L)[]
Another great fight, shame this was in the first round. After a 4-all draw, Plunderstorm won on a judges decision, and ultimately reached the heat final before losing to Killerhurtz. Most were willing to overlook what happened in actual S3 and say it could fare well if it worked properly. And I quite agree, but I'd personally fancy Scutter's Revenge for this one; this result could easily be overturned.
Facet vs Hypno-Disc (Heat M)[]
Facet won this 7-2. Nowadays, with a voter base that can vote for it to lose to Frostbite due to its weak armour, maybe not, or maybe it just wouldn't win so comfortably.
Mortis vs Razer (Heat O)[]
Think I said all I needed to when I covered the same match up in Redone S4.
Audited Series 7 (2013-14)[]
Firestorm 5 vs Typhoon 2 (Heat P)[]
Not that many contentious fights in this series, until we get to the final heat final. A very narrow win for the eventual series winner over the actual series winner 6-4. In this instance, I personally would be inclined to side with Firestorm, but I can see the argument for Typhoon 2, and, were we to do this fight now, I suspect it would still be close.
Tornado vs Bulldog Breed (Semi-Final 1)[]
Perhaps more contentious was this from the first semi-final, as the reigning champions narrowly fell to Bulldog Breed 5-4, and it was they who, ultimately, would go on to lose the final to Firestorm. Nowadays, that result could, and I'd probably say would, go the other way.
Stinger vs Bulldog Breed (Semi-Final 1)[]
Of course, if we did another Audited S7 nowadays, this fight wouldn't be possible, seeing as we now know Stinger not being allowed into the series because it didn't have an active weapon to be fake news. But if we did, and Stinger did compete, I'm pretty sure it could overturn Bulldog Breed's 6-5 win here.
Bigger Brother vs Bulldog Breed (Grand Final)[]
Wow, all three of Bulldog Breed's later stage wins were by one point, this time 7-6. There's an Only Connect sequence in there somewhere, Adster, if you ever do another series of that. Like the above, this fight could, and I suspect would, go the other way nowadays.
(to be continued)